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Forum Home > General Discussion > " New very effective managment for Perianal fistulas"

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

   I just wanted to pass along a new very effective managment procedure for Perianal fistulas. I know that some of us struggle with this horrible disease in our animals. Either EPI dog or not. My 6 year old male GSD Atak has come down with these fistulas. He has had them for 6 months now. When I first noticed him having trouble sitting and moving his bowels ( Straining to go) and licking his rectum I looked at the area and saw two holes around his rectum and a lot of oozing from the holes and a lot of anal swelling. We went to the vet and he was DX with Perianal fistulas. We were given cyclosporin ointment and an antibiotic. I refused the Prednisone for obvious reasons.

  The cyclosporin ( $200.00) a tube was at best not very effective in healing the holes. The antibiotics were also less than effective. Atak suffered for months with this terrible condition. I stayed with the meds but to no real effect. I came across a Perianal Fistula in dogs group on the web. It suggested this following managment treatment and the folks that followed it had dramatic results to the good. I will describe the treatment.

  Firstly the area around the rectum needs to be shaved of hair. Not so much as to shave it to the skin but shaved down to 1/4 inch long or so to allow air flow to the area. Also shave under the tail area the same length so as to keep the hair short there also. I shaved an area of about the width of the clipper head out from both sides of the rectum and below the rectum.(Just imagine drawing a circle around the outside of the rectum two to three inches and shave).  This is for dogs like Atak who's tail hangs down over the rectum area. A cheap pair of hair clippers will do. Just put the short guard on the clippers or just shave close if there is no guard. For dogs that have a tail that curls up or has very short hair it may not be necessary but it couldn't hurt to do so. When you shave the area around the rectum be careful and shave enough that if the tail hangs down you can easily see the rectum from the sides when looking at the area when the tail is down where it normaly hangs.

 Secondly you need to wash the area with Betadine soap/antiseptic or equivalant ( Wal-Mart has their Equate brand that is the same as Betadine and less money) I put some Betadine in a small bowl and use a gauze pad to dip in the Betadine. I wash the area well with the Betadine for 30 seconds or so. Not much Betadine is needed in the bowl because it goes a long way when washing. "Be sure to wash well the area of the rectum and about a few inches all around the area".( Under the tail also) The Betadine may sting for a few seconds but Atak didnot react to the Betadine wash. You may want to use a rubber glove to hold the gauze pad, but I do not because Betadine does not stain my hands and I can grip the gauze pad easily with my hands. Just be sure to wash the area well. Do not attempt to push the Betadine into the rectum. Just wash as you would a cut or scrape.

 Thirdly apply Desitin, Equate, or for you UK folks Sudocreme( I hope I spelled that right) Diaper Rash Zinc Oxide creme directly on the area and around the area where you washed. Best way to describe it is if you washed it, put the creme on it. Zinc oxide basically comes in 15% to 40% strength. I use the 40% strength and the strength is written on the tube or tub of Zinc oxide. Betadine is Providone antiseptic from what I remember and it is 10% Providone antiseptic. If it is Betadine or the equivalant it is safe to use.

 I apply the creme with my finger and if you wish you can use a rubber glove, again I don't find it necessary. I just wash my hands well before I use the betadine and after I put the Zinc Oxide on the area. Remember I just washed the area with Betadine so there is some Betadine on my fingers and very clean.  You don't need to push the Zinc Oxide into the rectum. You can put it directly on the fistula holes and rectum. Just put a good coat of it on the rectum and area around where you washed.

  I need to tell you that in less than two weeks and as early as 48 hours I saw a dramatic improvment in Atak. The area that was swollen had subsided greatly. The oozing stopped and in the two wees since I started this the holes have healed and the swelling gone. He no longer strains to poop and does not lick his area near as much.  When you put the Zinc Oxide creme on the area try to keep them from licking the area for 20 minutes. This will allow the creme to absorb. The Zinc will not make them sick if they do lick it from what I found, but a few licks and the creme is gone and not absorbed. I did the application and wash twice a day for two weeks and the holes have healed , the swelling gone and he does not strain to poop anymore. I will now do this wash and application once a day for two weeks and then two to three times a week after that for mainatinance. If I need to go back to once a day to keep things under control I will, but I am working to a few times a week expectation now that things look really good.

  The cost of the Betadine (16oz bottle) and the Desitin diaper rash zinc oxide creme was 15.00 for both. The Desitin tube was$ 7.00 and the Betadine was about $8.00 for the bottle. So for about $15.00 this will last me a month. A far cry from 200.00 for cyclosporin and the Antibiotics at about 50.00.

  This has worked very well for us and many others that have struggled to get the fistulas under control, where the cyclosporin and Anti's did not work well at all. Zinc oxide heals not only diaper rash but has been used on exzema, cuts, scrapes and abrasions with a great deal of effectivness. If I find the PF link on the web I will post it so you can read the information and testimonials. This is a first class web site you can read the info on and not have to belong to the site. These folks are like us at the EPI site wanting the best for their dogs and helping each other thru tough times. They are very caring and that is what drew me to them.

  Ataak is now very happy, He sleeps all night and does not lick much at all. He is back to normal and I am very grateful to the folks that put me on this info. I also wonder if this may help Gillians Wallace who has Metitarsal Fistulas on his feet. The combination works to heal open wounds so maybe this will work for Wallace also.

  Thanks for reading this long post. I tried to cover it all as best I could. Johnny and the crew.

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 2, 2014 at 10:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7251

Hi Johnny


what a pain


Kara has metatarsal fistulas too on both back paws my vet sugested Sudocrem


sudocrem which I think would be something similar to what you have


http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/brands/sudocrem/bnd-3dt


Wallace and Kara have everything together


hugs


jeanx

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us

 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

December 2, 2014 at 10:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

Here is the link

http://perianal-fistulas.tripod.com/MainIndex.html

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 2, 2014 at 10:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

 Jean. Yes the Sudocreme is the same thing we have here for diaper rash. I am hoping that this will also help with the metetarsal fistulas. Wouldn't that be great.  How is the sudo Creme working for the fistulas Kara has? The Betadine antiseptic wash is also important to cut down the infection. Hope this helps. Hugs to you all. Johnny.

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 2, 2014 at 10:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7251

well this is probably a fatal thing to say


but she is doing ok, she normally has a 5 day course of Pred and then daily washes with very luke warm salt water, but Betadine sounds good and easily got from Amazon


she has had them since she was born I think, the vet found them when he spayed her 


jeanx

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us

 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

December 2, 2014 at 10:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

 I hope for the best for you and Kara. She is such a love.

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 2, 2014 at 10:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3489

This is weird on my emails there is a question about alll this on another FB forums page so thanks John i have posted your reply there, hope you dont mind....but it is an FB GSD health page.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

December 3, 2014 at 4:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michele
Administrator
Posts: 7212

Thanks for sharing this great info Johnny and wishing Atak continued healing.   Hugs to all the "kids"!  :)

--

 Michele




Jackie (10/15/08 - 11/8/15) - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12.  Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup.   TOTW High Prarie, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E:  cisapride and metoclopramide.    Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU.

Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age.   We failed fostering and now he has his forever home :)   At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5)   Victor Hero Grain Free, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor 3 x's weekly, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am.  Hypothyroidism:   Soloxine.    Stable and happy 97 lbs.


December 3, 2014 at 8:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

Maddie Ann, Feel free to pass it along. I has helped Atak greatly. Check the link I posted for more inclusive information. Lots of testimonials on this treatment and also very good general info and specialists with PF.

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 3, 2014 at 4:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3489

John the lady had thanked me i will PM you the Fb page tomorrow ...thanks again.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

December 3, 2014 at 5:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John Hire & Muggie
Member
Posts: 696

Ok.

--

  Muggie, Now seven years old. Born September 18th 2008. DX at 20 months. TLI<1 , Cobalamin 414 , Folate 9.8.   (No signs of SIBO)  1/2 Teaspoon of Diane's 8X per cup of food (2 cups per meal) X2 daily. Enzynmes mixed with some sweet potato baby food and allowed to sit for 20-30 minutes before mixing in food.  Supplementing of Wonderlabs Trinfac B12 1X daily with meals.  Completed the recommended B-12 injection protocal many months ago. 1/2 tsp of coconut oil daily in her breakfast.  She is quite active now and I know she feels a lot better.

 Mug is Currently on "Forza Legend" fish based kibble food. ( Forza10usa.com ) I also use some raw feed pork loin with a combination of sweet potato and carrots on occasion weekly. Muggie now weighs 81 pounds and is doing well on Dianes 8X.

 Muggie thanks everyone here for her success. If not for this EPI site I am sure Mug would not be here today. Thank you all for sharing :)            

                               " PLEASE RESCUE YOUR NEXT NEW FRIEND ".   

December 3, 2014 at 5:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16733

just love this..... sharing info ... helping one another.... ya'll just rock!!!!   Thanks  !!


I for one always have a bottle of Betadine Solution... it has literally saved us dealing with a variety of health situations not only with my dogs  but with all animals...

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 4, 2014 at 9:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Diana
Member
Posts: 1

John Hire & Muggie at December 2, 2014 at 10:30 PM

Here is the link

http://perianal-fistulas.tripod.com/MainIndex.html

thank you so much for this information, I am going to try this protocol. I was at a complete loss with my Shephard and her PF, I could not afford the prescription meds (that don't always work). I have been giving her daily sitz baths in the tub and then following with hydrogen peroxide or witch hazel, with no improvement. However, she immediately came to the tub when she heard me preparing it so it must have offered some relief temporarily. I feel so badly for her. I'll let you know how this works. I feel like there's some hope for successfully managing this.





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March 18, 2017 at 4:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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