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Sarah
Member
Posts: 3
I am new to this page and am so thankful for it. My baby Cadence was diagnosed spring of 2015 at almost 2 years old. Luckily it only took a few months to get her healthy once diagnosed using enzyme 's and B-12 shots. My question is if anyone can give me advice on the B-12 pills. Financially as you know this has been a hardship. Finding Enzymes by Diane from this site has been a life saver. She was received the B12 shot regiment for months. A few months ago we tested her levels and they were normal. The get suggested taking her off shots. She has done well but recently I have noticed random loose stools followed with normal stool. I decided to look into at home B12 and found the recomended pulls from this site. Wonder labs pet factor B12. I was hoping someone had experience with this medicine and how to give it to them? Is it ok to mix it into their food along with the enzyme replacement? Or should I give it in dry food? Thank you in advance for any help you can give. Sarah!
January 17, 2016 at 1:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Deb
Member
Posts: 1577

Hi Sarah,

I've been giving Kody the Wonderlabs for over 3 years and it has maintained his b12. They are just capsules - I literally just throw it whole in his meal.

You can either open and sprinkle on the food or hide it whole in his meal. Doesn't matter what you're feeding - dry or wet.

http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Deb


--

Kody DOB 2nd Jan 2011. Diagnosed 11th Dec 2012. TLi less than 1. Dx weight 31.3kgs. Currently on 2x Creon 10 with every meal. Feeding 4 Big Dogfood premade Barf lamb patties and 500gms turkey mince meat divided between 4 meals. Started 6 week course B12 Injections 5th Jan 2013. 1 wonderlabs once a day. 1 Inner Health Plus a day.Started Tylan in case of "sneaky Sibo" 12th Feb 2013 as we were not seeing any weight gain although no true sibo signs.  10/4/2013  Started 1tbsp mash sweet potato before every meal for acid reflux - has made a big improvement to his burping. Oct 2013 Started 1tsp slippery elm per day & 1tsp coconut oil daily. Slowly increased to 5 tsps coconut oil a day. Also, on tylan for life.

21/12/2012 Test results at dx B12 257 (range 150-1020) and folate 15.9 (range 11-29). 

14/10/2013 Retested B12  1589 (range 150-1020) Folate 31 Cut wonderlabs to 1x day

27/11/2013 Weight 36kgs.

24/12/2013 Weight 37.3kgs. 3/2/2014 39.20 kgs 19/3/2014 41kgs

3/5/2014 42.85   21/6/2014 45kgs 21/7/2014 45.70  11/10/2014 48.60kgs

Please note: I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is just from my experience as an EPI dog owner. Please share with your vet anything that is suggested to you on this forum

 

January 17, 2016 at 3:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2001

Many people on the forum use the B12 pills. Must have intrinsic factor as EPI pups no longer make this. And like Deb says, easy to give. 

I give B12 shots at home. If you want to stick with injections, this is super easy and affordable. You do need a prescripton from your vet though. 

EIther way, over 80% of EPI dogs need B12 supplimentation for life. Glad you are having success with EPI management!

--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

January 17, 2016 at 8:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Buttermom
Administrator
Posts: 2505

And Butter gets both. We have continued giving an injection at home every 10 days, and we give a Wonderlab's capsule every other day. We open the capsule up and just mix it in her food when we feed her. The capsule do not need to be incubated in the food, so however you give it, it's fine. An EPI pup has a really hard time (if at all) holding the b12 levels, so most, if not all, of us supplement in one way or another. The injections are the cyanocobalamin type of b12, and the capsules are Methylcobalamin type. Sometimes a dog responds better to one than the other. 

Susan

--

"I am I because my little dog knows me."   Gertrude Stein

Butterbean, Chihuahua born on 06-27-2004, diagnosed in May-June of 2010 via pancreatic biopsy. TLI score of 0.7. Feeding Natural Balance LID Potato and Duck. 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of enzymes, twice a day.  She gets a B12 shot every 10 days, and a Wonderlab's capsule every other day.  She gets a maintenance dose of Cosequin every other day. Butter gets 1/4tsp of coconut oil, and a 1/2tsp of Platinum Plus CJ every day. Our new regimen now includes 1mg of prednisone every day, 1/4 tablet (50 mg) of trazodone twice a day, 0.3 ml of omeprazole every day, 1/16th tsp of lactobacillus acidophilus every 3 days, and 500mg of wild salmon oil every other day. 

We lost Butter on the 24th of April, 2017 to cognitive brain disease.  


January 17, 2016 at 9:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3159
Hi Sara - welcome to the group!! Good job managing the EPI!! I never gave Doc the shots - we've used WonderLab pills since the beginning 1 pill 2x day - just toss in his food - last check his B12 was over 1000. B12 supplementation is for life with these dogs as they don't make the intrinsic factor anymore. The pills are pretty inexpensive.
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 17, 2016 at 10:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17183

HI Sarah...


i too use the WOnderlabs pills.... i just toss one in the food... but if you have a dog that is fussy about pills in the food and picks them out.... then just give the capsule whole before/after a meal.... or tucked in cream cheese .... or try opening the capsules and sprinkling the powder ont he food......whatever works is fine.


My gal is a medium size dog tht now weighs 35lbs... she get the B12 WOnderlabs pill 3 days a week.  Butter who is a chihuahua (as Susan mentioend above) gtets one of these pills every other day, Deb on the other hand gives these pills daily... so the frequency will be something of a trial and error until you find the frequency that appears to work best for your pup.


Glad that overall, the EPI protocol is working well for your pup... and YES.... EnzymeDiane is our Enzyme angel... many of use would not be able to properly treat our dogs if it wasn't for EnzymeDiane!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

January 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sarah
Member
Posts: 3
Thank you so much for all of the advice. I will start giving it in her food tonight. My dog is one that will root out any pills so I will sprinkle it into her food. I do want to give a large thank you to this site which had given me the ability to learn about this disease and the strength in knowing people care. I was oblivious to this disease when my German Shepard mix became ill. She was very sick for over a month in and out of the vets office. Finally one of the vets recommend testing for Epi. Once the regiment was in place she began to get better, that's when the overwhelming part kicked in. After researching & finding this site we have found a way to afford proper treatment. I am so great full. I will start on the pills and watch for improvement.
January 17, 2016 at 2:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Administrator
Posts: 3959

Congratulations on helping your pup reach such a good balance, for doing the research, and hanging in there even when it got tough.  I give the Wonderlabs pills 2x daily also.  I used to do a combination of injections and pills, but found that when I went to twice a day on the pills, Kolby no longer needed the injections. 


Good luck and let us know how she does.


Barb

--


January 17, 2016 at 3:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sarah
Member
Posts: 3
I will thank you
January 17, 2016 at 7:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 885

I give my Ruby  B12 with intrinsic factor 2 a day one at each meal.  I just place it in her bowl with her food and she just goobles it down.  NO SHOTS makes me happy and keeps her stable.   

January 18, 2016 at 11:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ann Marie Greenspan
Member
Posts: 7

Doc's Mom at January 17, 2016 at 10:12 AM

Hi Sara - welcome to the group!! Good job managing the EPI!! I never gave Doc the shots - we've used WonderLab pills since the beginning 1 pill 2x day - just toss in his food - last check his B12 was over 1000. B12 supplementation is for life with these dogs as they don't make the intrinsic factor anymore. The pills are pretty inexpensive.

Our dog has been on the petFactor B12 also for 3 months and her values went from 249 before the petfactor B12 to >1,000.  Is it safe for a dog to have such a high B12 value?  Our dog vomits about once a week to the point where she won't eat or drink the rest of the day.  She does eat crap in the yard that probably contributes to her vomiting (eats squirrel poop, rabbit poop, anything she can find).  Our dog has SIBO but not EPI as her other values on the  Texas AM test were within normal limits.  I feed her 5x day, twice she gets the Tylan.  She weighs 43 lbs down from 48 just three months ago.  Vet is not worried about her weight and says that 43 is a better weight for her.  She is 13 yrs old GSD mix.

We don't have her on porcine based enzymes but am wondering if she needs them?  Are they only for EPI dogs?  She gets Wholistic Pet Organics Digest All Plus, one full scoop with every meal.  It is plant based and she should only need 1/4 scoop with her meals since her meals are 1/4 cup homemade cooked food at a time.  She also gets Answers Raw Goats Milk 2tbsp per meal.

I don't know if her vomiting once a week is due to eating crap in the yard or if something else is going on.  Other than that, she does fine with her food and poops are good.

I

--
June 9, 2018 at 11:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Administrator
Posts: 3686

Hello sorry she is feeling poorly you say she has SIBO ...you could try some slippery elm with some of her other feeds can i ask why she is feed 5 times a day ?

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


June 10, 2018 at 8:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3159

Hi Ann.  Do you remember what the TLI level was and when she was tested for EPI?  The reason I ask is that if it was low but not EPI she could have developed EPI since then.  It takes time for the pancreas to atrophy.  My boy was tested at 3mos old and his TLI was 16 - definitely not EPI, not even low really.  10mos later after he had lost 20lbs he was tested again and his TLI was less than .4 - definitely EPI.  

I agree with Ann - try Slippery Elm bark powder - be sure to get the powder not the pills.  I use the NOW brand and get it on Amazon but check with your local health food store.  The dosing for your dog's weight would be 1/2tsp - mix with 2tablespoons water and poor right on top of food 2x a day - less is more with SE so you could even start with 1/4tsp and see how things go.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


June 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3159

Ann - I forgot to answer your question about too much B12 - they will pee out any extra and is safe as long as there are no other medical conditions where too much B12 could be an issue.  I would recommend talking to your vet and see what they think.  If both of you feel it's too much then you could try backing off of the pills a little bit and see how it goes.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


June 10, 2018 at 8:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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