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Forum Home > General Discussion > Cobalequin B12 Supplement

yukipup
Member
Posts: 3
Hey, everyone! This isn't a question so much as just informing people lol. Anyway, I work in a vet clinic and last November I rescued a Beagle that was going to be euthanized by the client. Super skinny, having diarrhea, ravenous appetite...I wanted to give her a chance since the clients wouldn't do anything for her. Anyway, long story short, I've had her for about 6 months and she was just diagnosed with EPI. I have her on Enzyme Diane's enzymes right now and she seems to be doing well. We've been giving B12 injections for the past 7 weeks and we just retested her folate and cobalamin levels. Well, cobalamin back to normal ranges, but still on the lower end. So, just this past Friday we had a meeting with a Nutrimax rep and they have just come out with a B12 supplement that is supposed to be highly digestible and absorbable even for our EPI babies!! I was able to get a free sample of it for my girl and we've been on it for 3 days now...not enough time of course to notice a difference. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know it's out there and I'm planning on letting you all know if it truly works! Btw, they said the testing was done by Texas A&M which is a pretty big deal!
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May 22, 2016 at 11:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Buttermom
Administrator
Posts: 2505

Hi Rebekah!!!  Yes, please keep us updated on your trial. If you would, please keep a record of how you're applying the product, as in how many tablets, daily, etc....  I looked it up and I could not find how much b12 was in a tablet, or wether it was Methylcobalamin or cyanocobalamin, so if you could let us know that would be terrific. Also if you could let us know what the price is as well. We have had members who have had luck with b12 products without the intrinsic factor, but because of the amount they had to give, it proved not to be very cost effective. Others have had progress with the sublingual b12, but some of these products have artificial sweeteners and prove to be bad for our pups. Hopefully when you retest, your numbers will be up, and we can add this to our list of products that work for our members. 

Susan

--

"I am I because my little dog knows me."   Gertrude Stein

Butterbean, Chihuahua born on 06-27-2004, diagnosed in May-June of 2010 via pancreatic biopsy. TLI score of 0.7. Feeding Natural Balance LID Potato and Duck. 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of enzymes, twice a day.  She gets a B12 shot every 10 days, and a Wonderlab's capsule every other day.  She gets a maintenance dose of Cosequin every other day. Butter gets 1/4tsp of coconut oil, and a 1/2tsp of Platinum Plus CJ every day. Our new regimen now includes 1mg of prednisone every day, 1/4 tablet (50 mg) of trazodone twice a day, 0.3 ml of omeprazole every day, 1/16th tsp of lactobacillus acidophilus every 3 days, and 500mg of wild salmon oil every other day. 

We lost Butter on the 24th of April, 2017 to cognitive brain disease.  


May 23, 2016 at 12:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Deb
Member
Posts: 1577

As far as the latest research goes it's recommended oral b12 supplementation has intrinsic factor in order for epi dogs to absorb it. So when a sales rep says Texas A&M tested it, can they show you in writing the results and whether it was definitely shown to work on epi dogs.

If you've been doing injections for 7 weeks and the b12 has only come up from 194 to low normal, I would think injections should still be given until the b12 is over 600 which is where an epi dogs b12 should be and then look at giving the Wonderlabs b12. Have you definitely been giving b12 generic and not b12 complex injections. Maybe even go to bi weekly injections.

And as Susan said what's actually in the tablet and quantity.

I saw they are $21 for 45 tablets so Wonderlabs come in much cheaper and have proven effective for a lot of owners over the years at 180 caps for $24.99.

If you haven't already you can have a look at the b12 tab which explains in more detail about the intrinsic factor.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/b12.htm


--

Kody DOB 2nd Jan 2011. Diagnosed 11th Dec 2012. TLi less than 1. Dx weight 31.3kgs. Currently on 2x Creon 10 with every meal. Feeding 4 Big Dogfood premade Barf lamb patties and 500gms turkey mince meat divided between 4 meals. Started 6 week course B12 Injections 5th Jan 2013. 1 wonderlabs once a day. 1 Inner Health Plus a day.Started Tylan in case of "sneaky Sibo" 12th Feb 2013 as we were not seeing any weight gain although no true sibo signs.  10/4/2013  Started 1tbsp mash sweet potato before every meal for acid reflux - has made a big improvement to his burping. Oct 2013 Started 1tsp slippery elm per day & 1tsp coconut oil daily. Slowly increased to 5 tsps coconut oil a day. Also, on tylan for life.

21/12/2012 Test results at dx B12 257 (range 150-1020) and folate 15.9 (range 11-29). 

14/10/2013 Retested B12  1589 (range 150-1020) Folate 31 Cut wonderlabs to 1x day

27/11/2013 Weight 36kgs.

24/12/2013 Weight 37.3kgs. 3/2/2014 39.20 kgs 19/3/2014 41kgs

3/5/2014 42.85   21/6/2014 45kgs 21/7/2014 45.70  11/10/2014 48.60kgs

Please note: I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is just from my experience as an EPI dog owner. Please share with your vet anything that is suggested to you on this forum

 

May 23, 2016 at 1:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 885

I use B12 with intrinsic factor from wonderlab.com for years for my dog.  EPI dogs are not suppose to make intrinsic factor anymore that is why this B12 is important for them.   The B12 level for EPI dogs have to be over 600 always higher than the normal.

I give my dog 2 B12 with intrinsic factor everyday and she has been doing great with this for 6 years now. 

You might want to consider doing this for your dog. Since you work in a vet's office you can get the B12 test taken a couple of time over a few weeks just to make sure the B12 is up where it needs to be.    

So happy that you saved this wonderful dog and saving its life. You are a true blessing and you will be rewarded with great love from this dog.    

May 23, 2016 at 1:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

yukipup
Member
Posts: 3

Hey, guys and thanks for replying.

First off, I wanted to say I understand the hesitation with starting a new supplement, especially when there are so many people who have already had something that has been working for them. That being said, Zoey is still fairly newly diagnosed so we're still trying to figure out everything that is best for her, unlike most of you guys who have had your babies diagnosed for a while. We just finished her injections 2 weeks ago and restested her cobalamin this past Friday (the same day the NutriMax rep came) and since I was able to get a free sample of the product, my doctor and I agreed that we should try it. I'm not saying everyone should go on it. I'm simply stating that there is something new out there that is worth a shot. After all, as every EPI dog owner knows, what works for one dog will not necessarily work for another. Now, I'm going to try and address everyone as they commented, so here we go:

Buttermom: The tablets that I have are for small dogs less than 22 lbs (and cats) and contain 250 mcg of Cyanocobalamin. I give her one tablet once per day in the morning with her food. Since it's still so new, I'm not surprised there isn't that much information readily available. Like I said, I was only able to get a sample (1 bottle of 45 tablets)...my clinic hasn't even ordered it yet haha. The bottle that I was given, the rep said costs around $11. So $11 for 45 tablets...about $0.24 per tablet, which to me, isn't all that bad. I'm not sure about the big dogs, in all honesty, because since Zoey's a Beagle I was only interested in what was necessary for her...oops! But, the doctor that has been handling Zoey's case is very no nonsense and straight to the point. So to the point in fact, that when the rep came, she sat down, looked him straight in the eye, and said, "So. Does it actually work?" We originally were not going to put Zoey on any oral B12 supplement, but because this was presented in front of us, after she asked him some questions (We had to go talk to him in small groups and I had already left the room before she had finished inquiring him haha) she decided that it would be a good idea to try. We're planning on finishing the bottle and then retesting her levels and I will defintely let you know!


Deb: I can't remember for sure if he said it had intrinsic factor or not (he brought us Olive Garden so I was contently stuffing my face while listening haha), but he did say that there were quite a few dogs (and some cats!) that were included in the testing that had low B12 levels, including dogs with IBD and/or EPI. So EPI was definitely included and they did see positive results. The Cobalequin was only one of the products that he had brought to us that day, so needless to say, I was somewhat overwhelmed with information, but he was fairly thorough when he talked about the tests. And, yeah, since he used TAMU's name, I would assume that they would have the results of the testing. After all, I'm sure they wouldn't be able to get away with falsifying information like that. Moving on to the injections, I appreciate your concern, but sticking to what my doctor has told me (she's talked to specialists at our animal specialty center and the other doctors at my clinic), we believe that Zoey has made enough improvement to continue our trial with the orals. If, at any time during this trial, I notice that she is starting to lose any weight or anything else, I will immediately retest her and go from there. I'm not going to count these tabs out yet and just jump back to injections or Wonderlabs (which is what I understand a lot of EPI dogs are on). But I was looking at what the "normal" range for your dog was in your signature, and the range that our lab goes by seems to be a little different, so our "low end" may be a little more than what is considered low to your range. And yes, I have, for sure, been giving just B12 and not Vitamin B complex. We have both at our clinic and the difference is known and obvious. And yes, I have looked at the link with the intrinsic factor when I first stumbled upon this website when she was first diagnosed. I understand that you're just trying to help and are just stating what has worked for you (and others it seems), but Zoey and I are going to stick with what our doctor says until it is proven otherwise.


Marilyn Marinelli: As I told Deb, I am not counting out these tabs yet. They are still new, and how are we supposed to know if they work if no one is willing to try them? This is Zoey's first time off the injections, so this is what we're trying now.  I am aware that EPI dogs are supposed to be on the higher end of the range, but (again, as I told Deb), we are confident enough in her improvement that we are willing to try these tabs because they have been shown to improve B12 levels. Again, if she starts going downhill instead of improving, I will take action. But it has only been 3 days. I'm not counting them out yet. And just because I happen to work in a vet's office, doesn't mean I get my testing done for free. I still get charged and doing multiple tests in just a few weeks (depending on how many weeks exactly it is you're talking about), as you suggest, is way more than I can afford. We will be retesting her cobalamin levels at the end of the trial of this new supplement, unless complications arise, which will be in 42 days. At that point, I will consider what to do from there. This pup is definitely a light in my life and I definitely just want what's best for her. If  I could go back in time, I would take her all over again, but I would definitely get her tested for EPI sooner!!! :)


Thanks again, guys, and I will most definitely be keeping you updated!!

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May 23, 2016 at 6:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

yukipup
Member
Posts: 3

RESULTS!!

Hey, all! I apologize for my lack of response ever since my first post. I half forgot that I had even posted something in the first place. Anyway, back in May when I first posted, I was trying a new B12 supplement for Zoey, my Beagle who was diagnosed with EPI in March. There was a lot of concern about using this and a few people were trying to get me to just jump to something they knew worked for them. Needless to say, I kept Zoey on the Cobalequin for a full 45 days, which is how long the bottle lasted. By the end of the trial, I had noticed a significant difference in her appearance and demeanor. As of last month, she officially weighs over 25 pounds!! In all honestly, after the trial of Cobalequin, we haven't had to give Zoey another B12 supplement since. She's held her weight, she still eats like a champ, she plays, her stool is normal. She's like a normal dog again. This makes me more than confident to back what the Nutrimax rep said back in May when he presented it to us: It works. Like I said in the orginal post, it had been tested by Texas A&M, which is a big deal.

Again, I understand the concern with trying a new product. There's always the question of "will it work?". Well, for Zoey it did. I'm not going to sit here and say every single dog should be on this, because that's not at all the case. What might have worked for Zoey, may not work as well for others. But I have supreme confidence that this product is at least worth a try for those who have yet to find a B12 supplement, or even those that have been on one and want to try something new.

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November 1, 2016 at 11:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Stephen
Member
Posts: 4

I am new to the forum. My german shepherd hannah just passed away and I have close to half a kilo of Pancreatin 8x purchased from enzyme diane,if anyone needs pancreatin for there dog.I live in Franklin Square NY Long Island.Please let me know. Thank You

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November 1, 2016 at 3:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Kate
Member
Posts: 3

i just submitted a post about Cobalequin and i found this post.  I'm buying it for my dog (shepherd) and i'll let you know if i see any results.  you can find the tablets on VETRXDIRECT website.  My vet just told me about it b/c i take my shepherd every other week for b12 injections.

April 30, 2018 at 2:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Michaela
Member
Posts: 297

Nutramax is a good company. I would love to try it for Nikki but she can't have anything chicken flavored :(.


“I am particularly excited about an oral cobalamin supplement in the form of a chewable tablet that is specifically formulated for dogs and cats. This new formulation should make cobalamin supplementation easy for any pet owner and will make it a lot easier for veterinarians to recommend cobalamin supplementation to their clients.” – Jörg M. Steiner, med.vet., Dr.med.vet., PhD, DACVIM, DECVIM-CA, AGAF

http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/media-center/item/528-nutramax-laboratories-veterinary-sciences-inc-launches-cobalequin-cobalamin-supplement

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My GSD "Nikki" was diagnosed with EPI on 12/08/2010, TLI 1.07.  Receives weekly B12 injections.

Royal Canin Ultamino - 1 cup three times a day, 1 tsp of Viokase w/each meal soaked for 20 minutes.  She weighs 62 lbs.

Tylan:  1/4 tsp twice a day

"Nikki" GSD 11/21/2009 (EPI, IBD, Food Allergies, Atopy)

"Heidi" GSD (02/10/1995 - 02/21/2009) RIP Sweet Girl



May 2, 2018 at 10:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17180

We at Epi4Dogs and other EPI support groups too have been suggesting "oral" b12 for years now cause we have observered with before and after B12 blood tests with individual EPI dogs that certain oral B12 pills work with our EPI dogs. However, we have observed more success with B12 pills with the Intrinsic Factor included in the B12... than B12 pills without the Intrinsic Factor included.... but this does not mean that the Cobalaquin will not work on your EPI dog.


Pills are so much easier than shots and we ARE seeing better results, case by case, with many EPi dogs with low B12 once they are placed on oral B12 vs. B12 shots which used to be the recommendation.


We simply have also seen a greater positive response with EPI dogs that use oral B12 pills that use Methycobalamin+  Intrinsic Factor vs. oral B12 pills that only use Cyanocobalamin. ...... why, we are not exactly sure yet ... as much more research needs to be done, but for now, thankfully TAMU was able to do some research with oral B12 with Nutramax, an excellent company. The real problem is that we simply don't have enough viable dog research on B12.... so this was a great first step with using oral B12.   


I would love to have a controlled blind study with EPI dogs and low B12 done, but when Epi4Dogs approached TAMU, the price tag for a blind controlled study would have been approx $60,000 and Epi4Dogs just doesn't have that kind of money.


IMHO..... and this is only my personal thoughts on the matter.....is that my concern with the Cobalaquin is that (1) you can only purchase it through your vet, where as Wonderlabs and Chemeyes is availabe directly to the pet owner from the manufacturer at a lesser cost. (2) it doesn't include the Intrinsic Factor which appears to better benefit some EPi dogs struggling with low B12  (3) it uses Cyanocobalamin vs. Methycobalamin 


In the end, the best product to use is what works for your dog and what you are most comfortable using.  


FOR THOSE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN MORE DETAILS ABOUT INTRINSIC FACTOR, B12 IN DOGS THE FOLLOWING MIGHT BE A HELPFUL READ :  https://www.dsm.com/markets/anh/en_US/Compendium/companion_animals/vitamin_B12.html


ALSO... 2 POINTS MAY (or may not)  EXPLAIN WHY INTRINSIC FACTOR APPEARS TO FURTHER BENEFIT AN EPI DOG WITH LOW B12  

1. "....Intrinsic factor concentrates prepared from the stomach of one animal species do not in all cases increase B12absorption in other animal species or in humans. There are structural differences in the vitamin B12 intrinsic factors among species. Similarly, there are species differences for vitamin B12 transport proteins (Polak et al., 1979). Intrinsic factor has been demonstrated in the human, monkey, pig, rat, cow, ferret, rabbit, hamster, fox, lion, tiger and leopard. It has not, at present, been detected in the guinea pig, horse, sheep, chicken and various other species. It is now established that the dog stomach produces only small amounts of intrinsic factor, with larger amounts produced by the pancreas (Batt et al., 1991).” (and this “might” be why the B12 pills with the Intrinsic Factor works better on more of the canine EPI population than just oral B12 without the intrinsic factor since EPI damages the pancreas...we just don't know from one dog to the next how much damage has been done and "if" the pancreatic ducts have been affected.)

 2. “The malabsorption was caused by inefficient brush-border expression of intrinsic factor-vitamin B12 receptor due to a mutation of this complex and its retention (Fyfe et al., 1991b). Vitamin B12 deficiency associated with methylmalonic acidemia has been demonstrated .  We now know that SID/SIBO is present in all our EPI dogs. When SID is left uncontrolled it may destroy some of the brush border.... sometimes to a greater degree than other times (we have no idea from one dog to the next how much damage has been done) .... this too is also a problem that interferes with B12 production.... damaged brush border .. .( and this might be yet another reason why including the Intrinsic Factor in the B12 appears to work better in some dogs)

3. However, according to old research, the Intrinsic Factor should be species specific for "some" animals. The Intrinsic Factor that is used with the oral B12 products is porcine derived.... not canine derived, but yet it appears to still work with our EPI dogs with low B12, whereas simple high dose of oral B12 doesn't always work.  So it sounds like maybe non-species specific Intrinsic Factor (pig for dog) does work...but we don't really have proof of this yet.... just anecdotal evidence via before and after Cobalamin blood tests in individual EPI dogs with low B12.  Sure would like funding to clinically test this in a blind controlled study... maybe someday!


But until we can have the science to back up what we are observing on individual cases via blood tests, the best that we all can do is do is use products that appear to work well on our individual dogs  and that we are comfortable using.  

 



--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 3, 2018 at 10:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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