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Myles'mom
Member
Posts: 21

Ok so, approx once a week Myles will wake up around 4 or 5am, want to go outside, eat grass, and when he comes in his tummy is gurgling. A couple hours later he will have diarrhea, and then stool later in the day is usually soft, bu then goes back to normal. Appetite is fine, just these random (at least from what we can tell) episodes of gurgling, then diarrhea....anyone else experience this, or can shed some light on what it could be?

--
5/2/17 Weight :35 lbs Eating TOTW High Prairie, 1 cup twice daily


Update 2/27/17 :Current weight 33lbs. Eating TOTW High Prairie...Currently 3 cups daily, would like 2-3 more lbs before giving recommended amount. Probiotic Miracle 363 grams daily (1 scoop) Metamucil as needed.

Aussie/Beagle Myles 1 yr 10 mos  diagnosed 1/14/17 after dealing with symptoms approx 4 mos. 

Normal weight 36lbs current weight 23.5lbs, update 1/27/17 27 lbs! Woohoo!

TLI Less than 1.0, Folate 6.6, Cobalamin Less than 150

B12 started 1/10, giving weekly for 6 weeks. Started Pancreatin 6x  1/19/17, Currently eating California Naturals Chicken & Rice Formula (2.5% Fiber)...transitioning to TOTW High Prairie. Currently feeding 50/50, and going well.(1/27/17)

Melanie



February 28, 2017 at 3:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16736

he probably has SID starting up .. or never fully eradicated it.


My understanding is that sometimes they eat grass cuz their tummy doesn't feel well and the grass will make them puke and then they feel better. kind of like self-treating with medication.   On the flip side. in early spring, i have seen many of my dogs just eat the spring grass cause they want to... but there is no upchucking afterwards.


So...from what you are describing and then the poo... it sounds like upset tummy... possible SID.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

February 28, 2017 at 4:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Myles'mom
Member
Posts: 21

Update on the weekly diarrhea....we were doing the 6wks of b12, and were trying to go the month before administering again...got to 3 wks and called the vet because Myles wasn't acting like himself. They told me to start the b12 weekly again, and also give 1tsp Metamucil twice daily...I somewhat listened. I am doing 1tsp Slippery Elm powder at AM feeding, and 1 tsp Metamucil at PM feeding. I also increased his probiotics (I know you don't normally suggest probiotics this early in the dx, but he was on them before) Anyway, he hasn't had a gurgling followed by diarrhea episode for more than a week! Woohoo!

I am curious though, why do some of you use B12 capsules instead of injections?

--
5/2/17 Weight :35 lbs Eating TOTW High Prairie, 1 cup twice daily


Update 2/27/17 :Current weight 33lbs. Eating TOTW High Prairie...Currently 3 cups daily, would like 2-3 more lbs before giving recommended amount. Probiotic Miracle 363 grams daily (1 scoop) Metamucil as needed.

Aussie/Beagle Myles 1 yr 10 mos  diagnosed 1/14/17 after dealing with symptoms approx 4 mos. 

Normal weight 36lbs current weight 23.5lbs, update 1/27/17 27 lbs! Woohoo!

TLI Less than 1.0, Folate 6.6, Cobalamin Less than 150

B12 started 1/10, giving weekly for 6 weeks. Started Pancreatin 6x  1/19/17, Currently eating California Naturals Chicken & Rice Formula (2.5% Fiber)...transitioning to TOTW High Prairie. Currently feeding 50/50, and going well.(1/27/17)

Melanie



March 13, 2017 at 6:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Buttermom
Administrator
Posts: 2495

Melanie, that's terrific news on the diarrhea front!!!  As far as the b12 goes, the injections are cyanocobalamin type of b12 and most of the capsules are the methyl cobalamin type. Some dogs do better with one over the other. Then there are dogs that do well on both, and the capsules are much easier to administer. Some dogs don't do well with the injections, and some owners don't do well with the injections. Butter is on both. She gets a capsule every other day and an injection every 10 days. The majority of us use the Wonderlabs Trinfac-b or their Petfactor. These products both contain the intrinsic factor which is recommended to have in any oral supplement. If you would like to try the oral, feel free to do so, just keep really good records, and run that by your vet.

Susan

--

"I am I because my little dog knows me."   Gertrude Stein

Butterbean, Chihuahua born on 06-27-2004, diagnosed in May-June of 2010 via pancreatic biopsy. TLI score of 0.7. Feeding Natural Balance LID Potato and Duck. 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of enzymes, twice a day.  She gets a B12 shot every 10 days, and a Wonderlab's capsule every other day.  She gets a maintenance dose of Cosequin every other day. Butter gets 1/4tsp of coconut oil, and a 1/2tsp of Platinum Plus CJ every day. Our new regimen now includes 1mg of prednisone every day, 1/4 tablet (50 mg) of trazodone twice a day, 0.3 ml of omeprazole every day, 1/16th tsp of lactobacillus acidophilus every 3 days, and 500mg of wild salmon oil every other day. 

We lost Butter on the 24th of April, 2017 to cognitive brain disease.  


March 13, 2017 at 9:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Myles'mom
Member
Posts: 21

Buttermom at March 13, 2017 at 9:10 PM

Melanie, that's terrific news on the diarrhea front!!!  As far as the b12 goes, the injections are cyanocobalamin type of b12 and most of the capsules are the methyl cobalamin type. Some dogs do better with one over the other. Then there are dogs that do well on both, and the capsules are much easier to administer. Some dogs don't do well with the injections, and some owners don't do well with the injections. Butter is on both. She gets a capsule every other day and an injection every 10 days. The majority of us use the Wonderlabs Trinfac-b or their Petfactor. These products both contain the intrinsic factor which is recommended to have in any oral supplement. If you would like to try the oral, feel free to do so, just keep really good records, and run that by your vet.

Susan

Thanks for the info on the B12. I'm actually familiar with methyl vs cyan, as my boys have a gene mutation and have to take methyl cobalamin. I guess I assumed the injections were methyl, since it is a serum...hmm. We go back 4/14 to do labs again, so I will talk to them about it then. Capsules would definitely be easier. and looks a little cheaper too. Of course, it all comes down to what works best for the pup:)
March 14, 2017 at 6:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16736

Melanie.... when you have time.... can you explain the gene mutation and why Methycobalamin is recommended over Cyanocobalamin?  i find this interesting :)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 15, 2017 at 12:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Myles'mom
Member
Posts: 21

Epi4Dogs at March 15, 2017 at 12:34 PM

Melanie.... when you have time.... can you explain the gene mutation and why Methycobalamin is recommended over Cyanocobalamin?  i find this interesting :)

They have a gene mutation called MTHFR which makes their bodies not able to absorb B12 readily, so they have to take a supplement. Cyanocobalamin is synthetic (cyanide based) and presents B12 as folic acid instead of folate which is what our bodies really need. Cyan is harder for their bodies to break down and use it the way it is supposed to. Here's a good explanation of the difference.... http://www.methylcobalamininfo.com/methylcobalamin-vs-cyanocobalamin/
March 15, 2017 at 3:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16736

thanks  Melanie,  that was a great explanation.  I saved the link and am thinking about putting the "difference" explanation on the b12 page :)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 16, 2017 at 4:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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