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Forum Home > General Discussion > Worried of my gsd

ES
Member
Posts: 13
I own a gsd, since puppy he had been having loose ugly stools also bad diarrhea which i didnt know it was epi. Until after the age of 2 one of the vet suggested me to try out Lypex and i did, it somehow helped. However, his stools still have the sourish smelly odour. And he poo 4-5 times in one day, usually before and after meal as well as middle of the night when we are asleep. At one stage, after castrating him i noticed him putting on weight despite the same diet was given. His diet = grain free food (propac ultimates bayside) 1 and a half cup in the morning with 1 lypex, 1 probiotic + b12 intrinsic factor + fish oil (occassionally) Night 1 & a half cup same food + 1 lypex + 1 vit e + b12 intrinsic factor. ( for the past 3 yrs) This was his diet for the past few yrs. he is currently 5 yrs old. Recently pass 2 months. I added bromelain (night) + vetri dmg (1 morning & 1 night) There seems to be no difference. He lost his weight again, after putting on weight jus right after castration and losing it back despite the same diet given + additional supplements given. Food remained the same. Added tumeric paste too jus for general health. I see him getting skinnier now . Weighing around 25-28kg for a large bone gsd. Always hungry, good appetite, active. One thing i noticed he drinks alot of water, always thirsty, he can finish a big pail of water per day. Although he is active but he didnt seem to be strong, he somehow seems fragile. Walking unsteadily as if he is about to fall. His paws always swollen n inflammed, did not bring him out to any hard or rough surface. He is very sensitive to rice , whenever rice is given, he will have diarrhea or at times passed out rice. So i never or try not to give him anything with rice. Is there any way to help him put on weight n decrease his hunger? Im worried if he gets skinny n skinnier and not able to absorb nutrients then he will die of malnutrition. Currently my lypex also running out of stocks and the vet says its too expensive to bring it in. Is there any other enzymes which are effective that can be shipped to malaysia? I did try giving him homeopathy remedies like Iodium and Silicea + pancreatinum. I think it somehow helped because i noticed the stools not as smelly as before however in terms of weight still didnt see any difference, appetitie also still the same super hungry dog as if he has never eaten for many months. Everything all remain the same from my observation. And homeopathy is it safe to be taken on long term? A little worried on tis coz the homeopathy seller told me to give only a short period or whenever he has the symptoms. Kindly advise and give some opinions... I need to try new enzymes which can be easily accessed in my place, Malaysia. Also if possible something at a lower price as a box of Lypex here cost me about 300-310 ringgits. Very costly. It only last for a month. If i were to give 2 capsules per day.
March 6, 2017 at 8:26 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michele
Administrator
Posts: 7201

Hello and welcome to the forum. Are you opening the lypex and sprinkling it on the food? I just want to make sure you are not just giving it in pill form. It needs to be opened and sprinkled on the food right before serving. 


Rice is a grain and most cannot handle grains - we recommend 100% grain free.


We have a couple other members from Malaysia - let me see if I can find some of their threads or even reach out to them to see if they can possibly help.

--

 Michele

http://gardensoftranquility.com/



Jackie (10/15/08 - 11/8/15) - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12.  Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup.   TOTW High Prarie, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E:  cisapride and metoclopramide.    Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU.

Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age.   We failed fostering and now he has his forever home :)   At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5)   TOTW High Prarie, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am.  Hypothyroidism:   Soloxine.    Stable and happy 97 lbs.


March 6, 2017 at 8:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Michele at March 6, 2017 at 8:45 AM

Hello and welcome to the forum. Are you opening the lypex and sprinkling it on the food? I just want to make sure you are not just giving it in pill form. It needs to be opened and sprinkled on the food right before serving. 


Rice is a grain and most cannot handle grains - we recommend 100% grain free.


We have a couple other members from Malaysia - let me see if I can find some of their threads or even reach out to them to see if they can possibly help.

Yes i opened and sprinkled on the food.
March 6, 2017 at 8:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michele
Administrator
Posts: 7201

Here is one of the threads from another member in Malaysia - it sounds like you can get Creon and use Creon as an alternative to the Lypex. http://www.epi4dogs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/5969237-trooper-from-malaysia?page=2


Here is another thread from another member in Malaysia. Read through it and it may contain useful information. It does sound like you may be dealing with SID so I was happy to see Tylan is available in Malaysia. http://www.epi4dogs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/13210498-german-shepherd-citta-

--

 Michele

http://gardensoftranquility.com/



Jackie (10/15/08 - 11/8/15) - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12.  Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup.   TOTW High Prarie, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E:  cisapride and metoclopramide.    Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU.

Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age.   We failed fostering and now he has his forever home :)   At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5)   TOTW High Prarie, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am.  Hypothyroidism:   Soloxine.    Stable and happy 97 lbs.


March 6, 2017 at 8:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Buttermom
Administrator
Posts: 2455

Hello, and I'm glad you were able to post on the forum. For backgrounds sake, have you been able to get a TLI test done on your pup?  If it is available in Malaysia, this will be needed to confirm if it is EPI we are dealing with. If it is EPI, there are four cornerstones to treatment, enzymes, diet, antibiotics (if needed) and b12. In the beginning we suggest keeping things really, really simple. It sounds like there are a lot of things being thrown at your pup without really knowing what is going on. If your vet thinks EPI is a possibility, and the TLI test is unavailable, then it might be best to speak with them about going back to the beginning and starting over. I know lypex has been used with success for EPI dogs, but there may be other alternatives available to you. Creon (Kreon) would be one, and the other may be a company named Chemeyes. They sell a powdered enzyme that might be able to be accessed by you. It does sound as if Sid (sibo) is in play, which is an infection in the digestive system. An antibiotic will be needed to wipe this out, and we recommend Tylan (tylosin) powder for this. If this is not available, see what your vet can prescribe. The length of administering this antibiotic is 30-45 days. The b12 also sounds as if it is very low. This can be checked with a blood test as well, or you could begin the protocol of injections listed under the EPI tab above.  Look at the b12 subcategory. You will want the generic b12, an dit will be pink in color. There are also some oral b12 options with intrinsic factor, but it will depend on the availability to you. As far as the food goes, rice and grains are not good for an EPI dog. We recommend a low fiber (4% or less), grain free food. Speak with your vet and see what they think is going on. I'd they feel that your dog has EPI, then take a step back and perhaps start again with simple, direct treatment of this. If your vet thinks there is something else in play, you will need to know. 

Susan

--

"I am I because my little dog knows me."   Gertrude Stein

Butterbean, Chihuahua born on 06-27-2004, diagnosed in May-June of 2010 via pancreatic biopsy. TLI score of 0.7. Feeding Natural Balance LID Potato and Duck. 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of enzymes, twice a day.  She gets a B12 shot every 10 days, and a Wonderlab's capsule every other day.  She gets a maintenance dose of Cosequin every other day. Butter gets 1/4tsp of coconut oil, and a 1/2tsp of Platinum Plus CJ every day. Our new regimen now includes 1mg of prednisone every day, 1/4 tablet (50 mg) of trazodone twice a day, 0.3 ml of omeprazole every day, 1/16th tsp of lactobacillus acidophilus every 3 days, and 500mg of wild salmon oil every other day. 

March 6, 2017 at 8:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2654
Hi and welcome to the group. Am I understanding right that you have been giving Lypex for 3yrs? If so it may be that you need to increase the enzymes a tad. As EPI did he get older some require a tad bit more enzymes. Madelon
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


March 6, 2017 at 9:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16416

Hi and welcome to our EPI family ....we will try to help you as best we can.


First... the all of a sudden weight loss and excessive water consumption... PLEASE have your vet check him out for Diabetes.  This sometimes happens with EPI dogs, not often, but it does happen. If so, this would explain the combined weight loss and excessive water drinking.


Also.... just to be on the safe side, have your vet als o check for UTI (urinary tract infection) and/or crystals/stones.


However...  the stinky smell, and gas.... THAT is typical SID/SIBO. What i would suggest first is to giveTylosin Tartrate 100 gram powder (it will say soluble on the package.. and is made for chickens!)  Here is the USA we use Elanco "Tylan"... however, in different parts of the world different companies carry Tylosin Tartrate by other names.  I did a search and found that in Malaysia you can get Tylosin Tartrate 200mg (so this is twice as strong as what we use which means cut the dose in half) ... talk to your vet and check out this product:  http://www.ec21.com/product-details/Tylosin-Tartrate-for-Poultry--9037572.html


Next... in FB messaging (which i was having trouble responding to you on) you mentioned a new Enzyme product.... that product is plant enzymes and not potent enough to treat EPI with.  I understand ypex being expensive... what you can do is a search in your community to see if you can access raw pancreas from lamb or beef. Tere was a company selling it in Maylasia a few years ago, but i don't have his email anymore  :(.  The other thing you can try is have your vet give you a prescription for CREON 10,000 or CREON 12,000.


With regards to treating with some holistic meds.... Yes and No.   You really cannot effectively treat EPI holistically,,,, but rather you NEED animal sourced pancreatin.  The Bromelain is a GREAT addition as it is enzymes but from pineapple. SO it will help but it will not adequately manage EPI.  BUT.... you can always supplement expensive animal enzymes with plant enzymes and that "might" help defray some of the costs.    Also.... with SID/SIBO.... you can also us herbal remedies to help and sometimes alleviate SID while at other times you just have to give an antibiotic (Tylosin Tartrate 100 gram powder)  ANYWAY... what you can try as a holistic remedy for the SID/SIBO that sounds like at least one thing you are dealing with... You can try Agar-Agar powder/granulars.  Try 1/2 level teaspoon of Agar-Agar (i think this would be equivalent to approx 2 grams??) and include 1/3 cup of water... and toss all in the food.  This will help along the same lines as Slippery Elm that we use in the west.  Not identical but has some of the same properties.

I see you are using " Iodium and Silicea"   Imodium long term is not good... the Silicea is good and continue....

Everything else that you mentioned you are doing is excellent.


The thing that "might' have triggered SID/SIBO is that now that your dog has aged, he probably needs a little more enzymes... if you can stay on the lypex, that would be great ... but.... maybe instead of adding more lypex because of the exp expense (although this would be the right thing to do if this is what triggered the SID) maybe what you can try is continuing the Lypex as is...andthen add the plant enzymes (i am assuming this is a lot less expensive??? and using the plant enzymes as the "increased amount" of enzymes needed..Try this for a few weeks and see if it helps.  Something triggered the SID/SIBO.... and i am guessing this is it... or else you need to change the food.... in which case...

.. add more protein .. sometimes this helps. or change the diet completely to something with less carbs more protein.  You can make your own using cooked and mashed cassava root and adding protein. but you will need to include a doggie vitamin and bone of some sort (i use ground up bone meal).


Hopefully some of this information is useful and helps.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 6, 2017 at 10:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Buttermom at March 6, 2017 at 8:55 AM

Hello, and I'm glad you were able to post on the forum. For backgrounds sake, have you been able to get a TLI test done on your pup?  If it is available in Malaysia, this will be needed to confirm if it is EPI we are dealing with. If it is EPI, there are four cornerstones to treatment, enzymes, diet, antibiotics (if needed) and b12. In the beginning we suggest keeping things really, really simple. It sounds like there are a lot of things being thrown at your pup without really knowing what is going on. If your vet thinks EPI is a possibility, and the TLI test is unavailable, then it might be best to speak with them about going back to the beginning and starting over. I know lypex has been used with success for EPI dogs, but there may be other alternatives available to you. Creon (Kreon) would be one, and the other may be a company named Chemeyes. They sell a powdered enzyme that might be able to be accessed by you. It does sound as if Sid (sibo) is in play, which is an infection in the digestive system. An antibiotic will be needed to wipe this out, and we recommend Tylan (tylosin) powder for this. If this is not available, see what your vet can prescribe. The length of administering this antibiotic is 30-45 days. The b12 also sounds as if it is very low. This can be checked with a blood test as well, or you could begin the protocol of injections listed under the EPI tab above.  Look at the b12 subcategory. You will want the generic b12, an dit will be pink in color. There are also some oral b12 options with intrinsic factor, but it will depend on the availability to you. As far as the food goes, rice and grains are not good for an EPI dog. We recommend a low fiber (4% or less), grain free food. Speak with your vet and see what they think is going on. I'd they feel that your dog has EPI, then take a step back and perhaps start again with simple, direct treatment of this. If your vet thinks there is something else in play, you will need to know. 

Susan

Unfortunately there is no test to confirm epi in Malaysia according to some of the vets that i have been to and not many vets here are well versed with epi disorder. I was told to try out lypex and if it works as in help in the stools then it is confirmed epi. I did asked him about sibo he said nope. So he told me to continue with lypex. Before seeing this vet i sent to another vet which he suggested metronidazole, however it didnt helped he had even worst diarrhea after the metro. Until the whole house is filled with blood and many patches of diarrhea. He then told me to go for prenisolone jab which i didnt want to, that was when i seek for second opinion. Which suggested me epi and lypex. Back to the earlier metronidazole story, i managed the diarrhea with kaolin pectin only then he got better else my gsd cannot recover. So after when my gsd is already stabilized with lypex later on i did not dare to stop it, as i have tried giving him on alternate days, his stools become soft n bright yellow again. So ever since then 1 morning 1 night. Did increased the dosage for 1 month , 2 morning and 2 night, also did not see any changes. Stools still the same (normal), and its sourish. May i know whats the recommended dosage for b12? I ordered mine online from wonders laboratories. 1 capsule contains 1000mcg of b12 and 800mcg of folic acid. It comes with intrinsic factors. I would like to know if tylan is it safe? What are the common side effects? I would also like to share my gsd's pics how would i be able to do so? Because i wanted to show his before and after lypex picture. He was bigger in size before lypex altho he had diarrhea n loose stools but after lypex his stools got better but he lost alot of weight and the coat also turned dull. Do you think or have come across any scenarios where epi dogs need changes from time to time to improve in terms of weight gain? I did noticed a couple of times, after changing kibbles and food his coat will turn nicer (if i found the right kibbles), but only for a while, and the same goes for the castration only for a while then back to dull again. So when i asked the vet why, he told me dogs with ibd usually wont be able to absorb nutrients, so it is normal. But he ( the first vet ) only suggested steroid jab, so i didnt go back to him. Because my current vet told me steroid is the last resort so if lypex is helping , do not go for steroid. As it will suppress his immune system. Occassionally i do bring my dog to another vet, and also informed the vet about his condition but i was told to continue lypex and nothing much can be done. Therefore it is a little frustrating coz not many are really familiar with this disorder i suppose or maybe they are not too concern. And when i told them, with lypex i managed to prevent diarrhea when eating kibbles, but if i were to give rice + lypex, he will definitely have loose stools n bright yellowish colour. So the vet told me it cant be , if lypex works means even if u give rice it will still be ok, so they told me to increase the dosage of lypex and i did for one month without noticing any changes though. Anything that i should check further with my vet, aside to the sibo? And if they were to say its not necesarily to consume antibiotics or it is not sibo, what should i do next? Any test to confirm sibo? Is there anything more that you need to know?
March 6, 2017 at 10:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Doc's Mom at March 6, 2017 at 9:30 AM

Hi and welcome to the group. Am I understanding right that you have been giving Lypex for 3yrs? If so it may be that you need to increase the enzymes a tad. As EPI did he get older some require a tad bit more enzymes. Madelon

I tried for one month and see no difference hence i stopped. How long should i try to notice the differences? I noticed one huge difference is before lypex - bigger in size. After lypex - 3 yrs later become very skinny. Afraid it may be diabetes shown from the symptoms of thirst coz if his pancreas is not functioning well then he will not have sufficient insulin production.
March 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Epi4Dogs at March 6, 2017 at 10:46 AM

Hi and welcome to our EPI family ....we will try to help you as best we can.


First... the all of a sudden weight loss and excessive water consumption... PLEASE have your vet check him out for Diabetes.  This sometimes happens with EPI dogs, not often, but it does happen. If so, this would explain the combined weight loss and excessive water drinking.


Also.... just to be on the safe side, have your vet als o check for UTI (urinary tract infection) and/or crystals/stones.


However...  the stinky smell, and gas.... THAT is typical SID/SIBO. What i would suggest first is to giveTylosin Tartrate 100 gram powder (it will say soluble on the package.. and is made for chickens!)  Here is the USA we use Elanco "Tylan"... however, in different parts of the world different companies carry Tylosin Tartrate by other names.  I did a search and found that in Malaysia you can get Tylosin Tartrate 200mg (so this is twice as strong as what we use which means cut the dose in half) ... talk to your vet and check out this product:  http://www.ec21.com/product-details/Tylosin-Tartrate-for-Poultry--9037572.html


Next... in FB messaging (which i was having trouble responding to you on) you mentioned a new Enzyme product.... that product is plant enzymes and not potent enough to treat EPI with.  I understand ypex being expensive... what you can do is a search in your community to see if you can access raw pancreas from lamb or beef. Tere was a company selling it in Maylasia a few years ago, but i don't have his email anymore  :(.  The other thing you can try is have your vet give you a prescription for CREON 10,000 or CREON 12,000.


With regards to treating with some holistic meds.... Yes and No.   You really cannot effectively treat EPI holistically,,,, but rather you NEED animal sourced pancreatin.  The Bromelain is a GREAT addition as it is enzymes but from pineapple. SO it will help but it will not adequately manage EPI.  BUT.... you can always supplement expensive animal enzymes with plant enzymes and that "might" help defray some of the costs.    Also.... with SID/SIBO.... you can also us herbal remedies to help and sometimes alleviate SID while at other times you just have to give an antibiotic (Tylosin Tartrate 100 gram powder)  ANYWAY... what you can try as a holistic remedy for the SID/SIBO that sounds like at least one thing you are dealing with... You can try Agar-Agar powder/granulars.  Try 1/2 level teaspoon of Agar-Agar (i think this would be equivalent to approx 2 grams??) and include 1/3 cup of water... and toss all in the food.  This will help along the same lines as Slippery Elm that we use in the west.  Not identical but has some of the same properties.

I see you are using " Iodium and Silicea"   Imodium long term is not good... the Silicea is good and continue....

Everything else that you mentioned you are doing is excellent.


The thing that "might' have triggered SID/SIBO is that now that your dog has aged, he probably needs a little more enzymes... if you can stay on the lypex, that would be great ... but.... maybe instead of adding more lypex because of the exp expense (although this would be the right thing to do if this is what triggered the SID) maybe what you can try is continuing the Lypex as is...andthen add the plant enzymes (i am assuming this is a lot less expensive??? and using the plant enzymes as the "increased amount" of enzymes needed..Try this for a few weeks and see if it helps.  Something triggered the SID/SIBO.... and i am guessing this is it... or else you need to change the food.... in which case...

.. add more protein .. sometimes this helps. or change the diet completely to something with less carbs more protein.  You can make your own using cooked and mashed cassava root and adding protein. but you will need to include a doggie vitamin and bone of some sort (i use ground up bone meal).


Hopefully some of this information is useful and helps.

Did not check on uti, or stones but i don think he has that coz his urine is very clear and not smelly. Diabetes im also suspecting. Hmm.. What sort of blood test is recommended to test a thorough diseases which is inter related? Lypex right now i checked with my existing vet they told me no stocks, and i have been facing this issue, either it keeps increasing the prices or run out of stocks which i dont know why. Maybe its due to the depreciating of currency that led to less import. I did tried searching high and low for raw pancreas but failed to find anyone that sells it and many do not know what a pancreas is. When i shown them the picture they told me its stomach. I personally also do not know how pancreas looks like. May i know whats the function of slippery elm? The homeopathy i give only occassionally when i noticed his stools get sourish. The remedies really helped in reducing the sourness i dont know why. Is pancreatinum okay? I read it is pork pancreas but i m not very sure, if that can be taken everyday in high doses in homeopathy remedy. If it is purely pancreas then i dont mind but worry it may be something else which may cause any side effects. At one stage i tried raw food still no good. His coat got even worst so i switched to cooked food, meats (beef) sometimes chicken breast, and eggs quite often. I always try to give him cooked food at night unless not free to do so only then go for dry food. Sometimes i cook quinoa overnight in a slow cooker, surprisingly it is fine for him, no diarrhea or anything even with quinoa alone unlike rice. Unless if its porridge then he is fine. Hmm.. Is it normal? Is it because rice is hard?
March 6, 2017 at 11:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Devika
Member
Posts: 545
Hello there, We don't have a test for EPI in India as well so we work symptomatically to determine if it is EPI or not. Big appetite, loose stools, rapid weight loss etc are all classic signs to EPI but as Olesia has suggested- there are other issues which you could test for as well to rule them out. If lypex is not working as well, Creon is an enteric coated capsule which is widely used in Australia, UK as well as here in India as an enzyme. It needs a little trial and error with the strength ( start with 10k and see if it makes a difference to the poop) and sometimes one needs a little time gap between the enzyme and the food (between 5 and 15 minutes) to have optimal results. Antibiotics: to treat SIBO/ SID (to flush out the bad bacteria in the gut) Some dogs do not respond well to metronidazole. Maybe your vet could suggest a different salt? Or if Tylan is available, you could try that as well as Olesia had indicated. A 45 day course is recommended to start with but sometimes you could have a flare up again at a later date and need to give antibiotics again. The poop like you describe suggests SIBO might be the culprit. B12 Have you tried B12 injections? Sometimes injections are more effective than the pills simply because there isn't any need to "digest" them. A six week course of B12 ( methylcobalamine) injections once a week is suggested. Diet Grain free, low fibre diet. You could soak the pellets in water to soften the food to see if that makes it easier to digest. Small, more frequent meals help digestion. If you are giving Creon then make sure you give the enzyme with EVERY meal. Treats are a big no-no. I would also suggest keeping a diary of all the changes you are making and what the response is to each change. Try making one change at a time. That way you will know what is working and what is not. The poop will tell you everything. I'm sure you will figure things out. You're in the right place to get the best advice on EPI and please feel free to ask at questions you have. We are all here to help in any way we can. Cheers Devika
--

Mahi, the Indian EPI dog, diagnosed at 10 months, now 8 years old. Was 60 (28 kgs) lbs, went down to 46 lbs (19 kgs), but now with YOUR help, on 29th July 2012 touched 66 lbs(30 kgs) Officially stable for six years as on 10th June 2016 and weighed in at 31 kgs

Fed 3 times a day - homecooked diet of 400 gms potatoes, 70 gms lentils, 150 gms tapioca, squash, beetroot, carrots mashed together, 2 boiled eggs, 500 ml yoghurt and 3 cups of Orijen Grain Free. 1 Salmon Omega 3 tablet given per day. 1 tablet of Creon 25K given 20 mins before every meal. B12 injections bi-weekly. Very, very active - knock on wood, and seems to have gone from a level 10 of "hungry" to maybe an 8. On 27th July 2011, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 7. On 29th July 2012, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 6!! On  10th June 2016 "hungry" level downgraded to five :-)

March 6, 2017 at 11:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Devika at March 6, 2017 at 11:36 AM

Hello there, We don't have a test for EPI in India as well so we work symptomatically to determine if it is EPI or not. Big appetite, loose stools, rapid weight loss etc are all classic signs to EPI but as Olesia has suggested- there are other issues which you could test for as well to rule them out. If lypex is not working as well, Creon is an enteric coated capsule which is widely used in Australia, UK as well as here in India as an enzyme. It needs a little trial and error with the strength ( start with 10k and see if it makes a difference to the poop) and sometimes one needs a little time gap between the enzyme and the food (between 5 and 15 minutes) to have optimal results. Antibiotics: to treat SIBO/ SID (to flush out the bad bacteria in the gut) Some dogs do not respond well to metronidazole. Maybe your vet could suggest a different salt? Or if Tylan is available, you could try that as well as Olesia had indicated. A 45 day course is recommended to start with but sometimes you could have a flare up again at a later date and need to give antibiotics again. The poop like you describe suggests SIBO might be the culprit. B12 Have you tried B12 injections? Sometimes injections are more effective than the pills simply because there isn't any need to "digest" them. A six week course of B12 ( methylcobalamine) injections once a week is suggested. Diet Grain free, low fibre diet. You could soak the pellets in water to soften the food to see if that makes it easier to digest. Small, more frequent meals help digestion. If you are giving Creon then make sure you give the enzyme with EVERY meal. Treats are a big no-no. I would also suggest keeping a diary of all the changes you are making and what the response is to each change. Try making one change at a time. That way you will know what is working and what is not. The poop will tell you everything. I'm sure you will figure things out. You're in the right place to get the best advice on EPI and please feel free to ask at questions you have. We are all here to help in any way we can. Cheers Devika

Thank you for your opinions and advises. I think for now i will bring him to the vet to rule out if it is diabetes and i will check on his b12 levels (if there is such a test here) Anything more to check? And from there will see how to go about it. What concern me most is the drastic weight loss.
March 6, 2017 at 12:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16416

Hi ES.

First to answer your question, since you ahve the Wonderlabs B12 pills with "1000 mcg Methycobalamin, 800 mcg Folate & 40mg  Intrinsic Factor... it "should" work. Give one a day and you "should" notice a difference within 3 weeks.... if you don't, then, as Devika suggested, your dog may jsut be one that doesn't respond to and requires the shots.


Definitely have your vet test for Diabetes. A simple drop of blood that can be tested in the vet office and can indicate high sugar which will indicate a possible Diabetes issue....but... i suspect a blood draw sent to a lab will be needed to fully diagnosed Diabetes.


Whatever else might be going on, i strongly suspect that your dog has SID/SIBO and this (IMHO) is why the herbal/holistic rememdies you mentioned you tried has appeared to help.   i know Silica has many benefits (i actually take it myself for my back) but with our EPi dogs, one of the benefits is that fact that it creates a soothing mucilage that aids the ravaged gut from SID and helps it heal... and i can only guess at other benefits  from giving Silicea..but exactly what , i have no idea and to what beneficial degree it is, i have no idea.  The imodium is fine short-term but not long-term.... i recommend using something else to help curb the loose stools more naturally, if possible.


Before switching to CREON, although you might have to eventually do this, especially if you cannot get the Lypex at the moment... but if you can access the Lypex ..... i would like to recommend not changing just yet, but rather first try addressing other issues first. The reason why i am suggesting this is because the Lypex worked for 3 years,  i suspect all these issues may not indicate that you need to change enzymes but rather, your dog now needs more enzymes because of aging... or... if this is SID (different anti's needed) , or part of this is something else going on like Diabetes.


Just a FYI..... if your dog does have EPI.... most likely you pup had some SID/SIBO  when first diagnosed .  Sometimes we get it under control with proper EPI managed, and other times antibioitcs are needed.  The old school for antibiotics was Metronidazole. Unfortunately, sometimes it worked but not as much as it should have, but vets had no idea what else to prescribe.  Then researcn was done on Tylosin Tartrate and what they found is a much bigger positive response to Tylosin Tartrate vs. Metronidazole.  However.... sometimes if the Tylosin does not work after 7-10 days... then you know your dog just is not going to respond and THEN try the Metronidazole.


As i suggested in a post above, Tylosin Tartrate is available in Malaysia.... although it is twice a strong as what we use.  Please talk to your vet about it, print the SID SIBO page to show your vet and have your vet work with you on the proper dosage (dosing instruction for Tylosin Tartrate 100 gram is also on the SID /SIBO page.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/sidsibo.htm


My suggestion to you is the following (and pleae share with your vet):

1. First, have your vet test your dog for Diabetes

2. Second, work with your vet and treat for SID/SIBO with Tylosin Tartrate

3. If after a week or so treating SID/SIBO with Tylosin and you see absolutely NO improvement, (even though Tylosin should be given twice a day for 45 days) but if you see NO improvment in a short time ....then switch your focus to upping the enzymes . NOrmally i would say switch the antibiotic... but you have already stated that the Metro did not help at all.... so you've already tried that.

Along with all of the above, be sure to give the Wonderlabs B12 pill daily. Give around a meal or jsut toss in a meal

If you can no longer access Lypex, and if this is EPI, you have to treat with enzymes with every meal and no treats in-between.... in which case, talk to your vet about getting CREON (it is a human drug available world-wide to treat cystic fibrosis in people)... it sounds like my suggestion of raw pancreas won't work with your pup.. You mentioned that the product you are looking at says that it is made with porcine pancreas.. ... can you please list all the ingredient in the product here... so that we can better ascertain if is an appropriate product for EPI??


The fact that quiona works where as rice doesn't.... i have no idea why except for the possibility that maybe the type of fiber in quiona is helping your dog which may (or may not) indicate some IBD going on. Just guessing............not really sure.  And of course, there is always the possibility that this is not EPI-related but something else going on.........


The best we can do without testing is exactly what you are doing .... closely observe, work with your vet, share with others who have similar experiences..... combine all this knowledge and "try" to come up with a step-by-step plan of action

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 7, 2017 at 11:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3451

Hello  could you tell me in grams what  is the amount of food you are using per meal i needed  1 lypex per 100 grams of food...Maddie is only a small GSd ate 600 grams of food spread over 3 meals...so i am thinking that you a) may need more lypex and B) if you can increase the food intake to 3 meals a day.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

March 7, 2017 at 5:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16416

thanks Ann for chiming in about the Lypex..... since we don't use it here in the USA, we don't have any hands-on experience with it which often differes from what the label says.... so i appreciate you chiming in and helping out :)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 7, 2017 at 6:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

Epi4Dogs at March 7, 2017 at 11:25 AM

Hi ES.

First to answer your question, since you ahve the Wonderlabs B12 pills with "1000 mcg Methycobalamin, 800 mcg Folate & 40mg  Intrinsic Factor... it "should" work. Give one a day and you "should" notice a difference within 3 weeks.... if you don't, then, as Devika suggested, your dog may jsut be one that doesn't respond to and requires the shots.


Definitely have your vet test for Diabetes. A simple drop of blood that can be tested in the vet office and can indicate high sugar which will indicate a possible Diabetes issue....but... i suspect a blood draw sent to a lab will be needed to fully diagnosed Diabetes.


Whatever else might be going on, i strongly suspect that your dog has SID/SIBO and this (IMHO) is why the herbal/holistic rememdies you mentioned you tried has appeared to help.   i know Silica has many benefits (i actually take it myself for my back) but with our EPi dogs, one of the benefits is that fact that it creates a soothing mucilage that aids the ravaged gut from SID and helps it heal... and i can only guess at other benefits  from giving Silicea..but exactly what , i have no idea and to what beneficial degree it is, i have no idea.  The imodium is fine short-term but not long-term.... i recommend using something else to help curb the loose stools more naturally, if possible.


Before switching to CREON, although you might have to eventually do this, especially if you cannot get the Lypex at the moment... but if you can access the Lypex ..... i would like to recommend not changing just yet, but rather first try addressing other issues first. The reason why i am suggesting this is because the Lypex worked for 3 years,  i suspect all these issues may not indicate that you need to change enzymes but rather, your dog now needs more enzymes because of aging... or... if this is SID (different anti's needed) , or part of this is something else going on like Diabetes.


Just a FYI..... if your dog does have EPI.... most likely you pup had some SID/SIBO  when first diagnosed .  Sometimes we get it under control with proper EPI managed, and other times antibioitcs are needed.  The old school for antibiotics was Metronidazole. Unfortunately, sometimes it worked but not as much as it should have, but vets had no idea what else to prescribe.  Then researcn was done on Tylosin Tartrate and what they found is a much bigger positive response to Tylosin Tartrate vs. Metronidazole.  However.... sometimes if the Tylosin does not work after 7-10 days... then you know your dog just is not going to respond and THEN try the Metronidazole.


As i suggested in a post above, Tylosin Tartrate is available in Malaysia.... although it is twice a strong as what we use.  Please talk to your vet about it, print the SID SIBO page to show your vet and have your vet work with you on the proper dosage (dosing instruction for Tylosin Tartrate 100 gram is also on the SID /SIBO page.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/sidsibo.htm


My suggestion to you is the following (and pleae share with your vet):

1. First, have your vet test your dog for Diabetes

2. Second, work with your vet and treat for SID/SIBO with Tylosin Tartrate

3. If after a week or so treating SID/SIBO with Tylosin and you see absolutely NO improvement, (even though Tylosin should be given twice a day for 45 days) but if you see NO improvment in a short time ....then switch your focus to upping the enzymes . NOrmally i would say switch the antibiotic... but you have already stated that the Metro did not help at all.... so you've already tried that.

Along with all of the above, be sure to give the Wonderlabs B12 pill daily. Give around a meal or jsut toss in a meal

If you can no longer access Lypex, and if this is EPI, you have to treat with enzymes with every meal and no treats in-between.... in which case, talk to your vet about getting CREON (it is a human drug available world-wide to treat cystic fibrosis in people)... it sounds like my suggestion of raw pancreas won't work with your pup.. You mentioned that the product you are looking at says that it is made with porcine pancreas.. ... can you please list all the ingredient in the product here... so that we can better ascertain if is an appropriate product for EPI??


The fact that quiona works where as rice doesn't.... i have no idea why except for the possibility that maybe the type of fiber in quiona is helping your dog which may (or may not) indicate some IBD going on. Just guessing............not really sure.  And of course, there is always the possibility that this is not EPI-related but something else going on.........


The best we can do without testing is exactly what you are doing .... closely observe, work with your vet, share with others who have similar experiences..... combine all this knowledge and "try" to come up with a step-by-step plan of action

Thank you for the thorought list. I will see arrange to see my vet soon to perform a thorough blood tests. And then will update what is the outcome here. Btw, i feed him b12 , 2 capsules per day. One in the day time during meal and another at night during meal. Will it be too much or once would be sufficient?
March 8, 2017 at 9:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13

maddie ann at March 7, 2017 at 5:56 PM

Hello  could you tell me in grams what  is the amount of food you are using per meal i needed  1 lypex per 100 grams of food...Maddie is only a small GSd ate 600 grams of food spread over 3 meals...so i am thinking that you a) may need more lypex and B) if you can increase the food intake to 3 meals a day.

Erm i put 1 lypex for one and a half cup of food. Im not sure though how many grams r they. Let me check later to see if there is any indication of weight on the cup.
March 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16416

Hi Erm...... if you go by the B12 dosing chart, for dogs between:

  • dogs, 15-30 kg (30-65 lb) = 800 µg this is also 800 mcg of oral B12
  • dogs, 30-45 kg (65-100 lb) = 1200 µg this is also 1200 mcg of oral B12
So.... my initial thought is that 1 pill a day should be sufficient... however... with that being said, there are folks that give 2 Wonderlabs B12 capsules daily and when they reduce to 1 capsule the dog falters a bit.... SO...my suggestion is to do the 2 Wonderlabs B12 capsules for 3 weeks-month and then back down to 1 capsule daily BUT observe closely to see if you think your dog is deterioating or if he seems to be doing just as well as he did when on 2 capsules.


The other appropriate way to asssess is to have your vet rn a Cobalamin Blood test (B12 blood test).... if available in your area.  If so, be sure to food-fast for 12/hours prior to the blood being drawn (this is why a morning appt for the blood drawn is best) and don't have the blood drawn towards the end of the week just in case it gets shipped and then sits in a lab over the weekend without being processed as this will render the sample useless.  Here is the USA, we suggest getting the blood drawn on Mon,Tue or Wed for this very reason.  I hope this helps answer your B12 questions.


I'll let Ann help you with the food and Lypex portions (thanks Ann!!)

 


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 8, 2017 at 10:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3451

Hello again i think i have found the food you use:

http://www.propacultimates.com/dog-food/bayside-select/

This infers that a cup is around 110 grams when i convert it , now we need to feed according to the weight we want our dog to be so having had a Male gsd  they usually weigh in at a fit weight of about 40kg...so can you increase the food to 2 cups per feed and possibly feed 3 times a day ...now with this you need to increase the Lypex as enzmes are dosed inaccordance with the food given ( apart from Creon as that works differntly have you looked at this as alternative?).

Seem to remeber that Maddie drank more water before i got eveything correct if they are feeling hungery he might be drinking to make him feel full...just an idea.

Hope this helps.


--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

March 8, 2017 at 11:54 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ES
Member
Posts: 13
Ok i have gotten the cup gm which im giving him. Im giving him 1 and half cup which equals to 230gm+/-.. So how much lypex should i be giving? I have gotten some small quantity of lypex already still waiting for 2 more boxes which i have placed my order. Temporarily giving him a plant enzyme called Alpteses + lypex, twice a day. So far i noticed the stools are better but the quantity of it still alot and huge stools. My gsd stools seem to be powdery type. When i scoop it will break into extremely small particles like sands. Is that normal? Already been consistently feeding alpteses and lypex for the past 4 days. So far there seems to be some improvement with combination of both i suppose compare to alpteses alone (plant enzymes). Still havent put on weight, still skinny, stools still huge and alot, pass many times a day (no changes), eat a lot as usual, also continued w my homeopathy silicea and pancreatinum alternate days.
March 16, 2017 at 12:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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