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Heather
Member
Posts: 4
My two year old westie has just been diagnosed with EPI. It has been a terrible three months for us, I could and still can not fill her. She just started medication she is on panzym. She is still wanting to eat her stools. The vet has told me to use half a teaspoon twice a day in her food. I feel awful because she is so hungry and before she started on medication i fed her small but often. I would also like to know if her brother who lives with us is more likely to get this condition. I am feeding her a dog food called specific which is a disgestive support food sold only by the the vets. She loves her raw carrots, would these be ok to put in with her meal and medication ?
March 14, 2017 at 5:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2715
Hi Heather - welcome to the Group!! I'm so sorry you have to be here but it's the best place to get the correct and most current information to manage EPI. There is information on our download page above for the U.K. regarding the four cornerstones to managing New of managing EPI: enzymes, B12, antibiotics (if needed) and food. One of our U.K. Members will chime in soon. In the meantime, if you could post your test results it will help us be better able to offer suggestions.
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


March 14, 2017 at 7:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Buttermom
Administrator
Posts: 2471

Hello Heather and welcome.....  As Madelon said, please read the U.K. quick guide. This will give you an overview of your options. I will ask if the b12 was checked. The little ones seem to be low in b12 at diagnosis and have a hard time keeping the levels up. As for her brother getting this condition, there seems to only be a genetic factor in GSD's and bearded collies, so most likely he will not. That being said, there is no 100% certainty with EPI. The small, frequent meals is exactly what we recommend in the beginning, as well as feeding 150% of the recommended amount. I'm not sure of the amount of panzym that you're giving, so perhaps one of our U.K. members will be able to help with that. As for the food, it is not necessary to feed a prescription or vet food unless there is another condition being addressed. For EPI the dogs seem to do best with a grain free, low fiber (4% or less) food. Most vet foods (unless hydrolyzed) have a huge amount of grain (corn) in them and generally do not do well in an EPI pup. Let us know what the b12 score was, and ask any and all questions you might have....

Susan

--

"I am I because my little dog knows me."   Gertrude Stein

Butterbean, Chihuahua born on 06-27-2004, diagnosed in May-June of 2010 via pancreatic biopsy. TLI score of 0.7. Feeding Natural Balance LID Potato and Duck. 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of enzymes, twice a day.  She gets a B12 shot every 10 days, and a Wonderlab's capsule every other day.  She gets a maintenance dose of Cosequin every other day. Butter gets 1/4tsp of coconut oil, and a 1/2tsp of Platinum Plus CJ every day. Our new regimen now includes 1mg of prednisone every day, 1/4 tablet (50 mg) of trazodone twice a day, 0.3 ml of omeprazole every day, 1/16th tsp of lactobacillus acidophilus every 3 days, and 500mg of wild salmon oil every other day. 

March 14, 2017 at 8:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7226

hello Heather, and welcome to you in Leeds from Liverpool


that dog food is not one I have come across  


which one specifically are you feeding ?


couple of questions


how many meals a day and how much per feed


are you supplementing with B12


any antibiotics for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth


as you are clearly in a panic would it help to talk to me about it ?


the answer about her brother, well thats the 64million dollar question, we dont know, all I can say is keep an eye on him, you certainly cannot catch it


keep a journal record everything you are doing


and feel free to speak to me


Jean Admin UK




--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

March 14, 2017 at 8:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3763

Hello, Heather and Welcome!


First, please don't feel awful.  There was no way for you to know that what was causing the hunger in your pup was not lack of food, but a malabsorption condition. We were all in exactly  the same boat before our dogs were diagnosed.   Now that you know it is EPI, you can treat it and guide your girl to good health.  Plus, you have many, many people here who can help you because we have all been where you are.  This first stage of getting everything balanced is the trickiest.  You have a great group of people in the UK who can help you.  


You mentioned giving the Panzym twice a day.  If you can tell us how you prepare the enzymes and how much food and enzymes you use at each meal,  our UK members can help you work out the dosage.   As Madelon asked, if you can post the results of the TLI and B12 tests, we'll have a better idea what to suggest.  


I heartily recommend keeping a log/journal of everything you give your pup on a daily basis and the resulting poos.  This will help you to see what works and what doesn't.   At first, it is a lot of trial and error until you start seeing results.   Then you will be amazed at how manageable it becomes.


Please ask any questions you have, no matter how small they seem.


Hang in there.


Barb 

--


March 14, 2017 at 9:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Heather
Member
Posts: 4
Thank you everyone for your response. She was put on anti biotics first for five days and a treatment of good bacteria. This did not help so she was then put on antibiotics for 7 days, and rewormed. After this she was given steriods and another dose of good bacteria. Still did not work she had b12 test and is curently had her third dose. This is only her 2nd day on enzymes. Was told to feed her twice daily. With half a teaspoon of panzym added but she is so hungry. She fed 200g of dry Specific digestvie support food. Does say on packet to use for EPI. Also give her some of this in wet form mixed in. I have mix the enzyme with a bit of room temperature water (read this on here this morning ). Just feel so bad she is soo hungry and like i said was giving her small but often food before her diagnosis. Have not got the exact test reults from the vet.
March 14, 2017 at 12:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7226

give me a ring


jx

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

March 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Heather
Member
Posts: 4
How do i get your number ?
March 14, 2017 at 5:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 713

Hi Heather,

Youre in good hands with our UK friends, just wanted to say welcome! :)

This condition is totally manageable and your dog can live a full life!

Donna

March 14, 2017 at 6:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Patsy
Member
Posts: 884

Hi from Sheffield,  I hope you catch Jean,  send me a private message if you have a problem.  Talking is easier than typing. All of us thought our dogs would die, so relax , it will work out. It seems a palaver at first, but  with our experience we can get you on track quicker than the vet. Most of them have no experience, apart from Jeans, who is the expert. Enzymes...cheaper online, eg from Vetuk, or different brands/ capsules. They are different from our US friends ones, no soaking, just stir in and disguise the taste with something smelly like canned fish.   b12 injection course.... Needs a blood test.     Antibiotics......double length course of oxytetracycline  unless tylan available.   Food.....never heard of yours,    But normal excellent foods  are easy to find. I settled on Millies Wolfheart, made in Keighley I think,  bought online. Get a sample at first .  Or if you wanted a canned wet food that is grain free,   Look at Yorkshire Natural Foods website,  they stock many varieties of grain free . 

Sorry to go on. You will see hungry dog, thirsty dog, smelly dog....but when you see a solid poop , you will be ecstatic! Let us know how things go this week.

--

Marti  Springer Spaniel, owned by Patsy, Sheffield, England.  She died age 12yrs 6mths  on 27/11/14 from heart failure. Diagnosed after three months, when she was 4 years old,she dropped from 24 kilos to 17 kg.  initially she also had protein losing enteropathy, treated with steroids, ,raw sores on back, obsessive thirst, bursting bowels and biadder, then stable after 2 years.   Developed another autoimmune problem with muscular myositis on head ( muscles wasted away, leaving gaunt hollows.)  She also suffered sometimes from  bottom end thrush, anal  gland infections, and recurrent SIBO treated with 4 weeks of oxytetracycline each time. 

Enzymes: Panzym caused mouth problems, resulting in tooth removal , as I didn't know at the time how caustic it was. I changed to one Lypex  then used VetUk Pancreatic Nutrient tablets, and one Chemeyes because it is half the strength, and I didn't need to use two vet uk ones. Then 3 Chemeyes or  2 pancreatic Nutrient  per meal. 

B12 injection monthly.  Trinfac B12 + intrinsic factor capsules from Chemeyes daily. Metacam for knee joints.  Also used Yumpro Bio pre/probiotics.

Food: picky eater,tinned  Chappie saved her life  till she would eat kibble again.  Eden Holistic, Millies Wolfheart and Lily's Kitchen all good,chicken and grain free.

Vets, one caring learner, who had  nervous breakdown, replaced by obnoxious vet , so I rang round  interviewing them to find someone I trusted and would work with us. Since losing Marti and Bob, I have changed again since the good vet us retired.

RIP Bobby the cocker , from PLN.  Present pet, Tinker the fluffy little grey Greek rescue dog. New addition, Jack ,  a neglected rescue terrier, looks like a fox cub and so happy to to be healthy and loved.

 


March 15, 2017 at 5:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7226

sorry Heather, i sent you a private message through  the internet, and you should have it by e-mail


0151 726 1468

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

March 15, 2017 at 5:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16521

Hi Heather.... you are now in good hands with Jean (THANKS JEAN!!!! for reaching out to Heather :))

Heather.... Jean can greatly help you with the enzymes and i personally suspect that the other half of the problem is SID and often (too often) these dogs do not respond as well as we'd like on the typically recommended antibiotics... However... if your vet has not yet prescribed an antibiotic that works... ask your vet to prescribe Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate 100 gram powder) (see below links).... give for 45 days/twice a day....dosing instructions are on the SID SIBO page: 

http://www.epi4dogs.com/sidsibo.htm

Also... if your vet has not heard of Tylan to treat SID in EPI dogs... have him contact Bristol University in the UK

If you are in the UK..... you can get Tylan from the following places.... with a prescription from your vet (Thank you Esme for this information!)

 

 

1. http://www.petmeds.co.uk/Brands-A-Z/T/Tylan/c/PMGB00464

 

2. http://www.viovet.co.uk/Tylan_Antibiotic/c323/

 

3. http://www.myvetmeds.co.uk/tylan-soluble-100g.htm

 

Also.... FYI... here is the UK EPI Guide: 

http://www.epi4dogs.com/PDF%20Files/MANAGING%20EPI%20IN%20THE%20UK-FINAL%2011-28-2012.pdf


And be sure to call Jean.... she will offer you the best help of all :)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 15, 2017 at 11:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Heather
Member
Posts: 4
Hi every. Thanks ever so much for your help and food recomendations. Have seen a james welkbelived grain free dry fiod. Wondered if anyone had tried this. Great new stool getting a nice form tho still soft they not like cow pies anymore. Not even been a week yet. Will try and ger test results from vet when daisy goes for next weekly vit b12 injection on tues. Once again Thanks, yes thought i was going to loose my baby but hopefully she is on the ling road to recovery xx
March 17, 2017 at 11:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7226
Hi We have used J W turkey and veg grain free as a trial for three months, and may well change permanently Kara is really doing well on it and its easy to get I would get yourself a VIP card from Pets at home, we have saved so much, as they price match, you get a voucher via email As i have said by all means ring me.......... We have been at this 6.5 years and we have struggled, and i mean to the wire ! Jx
--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

March 17, 2017 at 2:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16521

regarding carrots.... forgot to mention that i too give thin slices of carrots to ALL my dogs as their "treat/dessert" but i give it immediately following their meals.... and this is so that the enzymed meal my EPI gal just ate will cover the digestion of the carrots..... otherwise... they will not be digested.


And.... just a interesting tidbit about carrots.... which are loaded with Vitamin A..... my non-EPI gal, Lulu LOVES carrots, if i don't give them their "carrot treat" she will stand in front of the frig and bark  ......anyway... she used to get tons of carrots every day.... and thenshe started losing her hair (she has poodle like hair)... We thought for sure it wa low thyroid, spent $$$ on the full test, etc .... nothing.... then i started doing research and calculating how much carrots Lulu was actually eating a day..... well.... she was eating so many carrots that she was consuming over 3 times the amount of Vitamin A she should have been having.... and that did not take into consideration the vitamins that are in her dog food too..... so i greatly reduced the amount of carrots she was eating (about 1/2 bag a day... she really loves her carrots).... and her hair grew back.... my vet couldn't believe it....until he too worked out the allotment for Vitamin A for a dog my Lulu's size....crazy!! 


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 18, 2017 at 11:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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