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Forum Home > General Discussion > What sge did EPI show up in your dog?

Marilyn Hollis
Member
Posts: 35
We just got a German Shepherd pup last week. Her stools were great until a couple of days ago. They have started to be very soft but still somewhat formed. Then today for the first time she tried to eat them. Hopefully just stress because she went to vet today and got puppy vaccinations. All kinds of red flags are going up because we lost our German Shepherd in a car accident. She was riding in the back seat of my daughter's car when a truck hit them. Killed our Shepherd. But our Shepherd had epi. Now I'm paranoid about our new pup. Any input would be so welcomed! Thank you!
--

 “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.”

March 17, 2017 at 9:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Hollis
Member
Posts: 35
Sorry that's confusing. Red flags are not going up because we lost our dog in a car accident. Red flags are going up because her stools are getting softer and she's trying to eat them.
--

 “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.”

March 17, 2017 at 9:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1942

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your pup.

EPI can happen at any age. Since she just got her shots, I might give it a week or so to see if it clears up. But if it doesn't, I would run the TLI test to be sure...


--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

March 17, 2017 at 10:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Hollis
Member
Posts: 35
Ok thank you!
--

 “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.”

March 17, 2017 at 11:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7341

hi there


i can understand you are fearful


i am so sorry about what happened to Brisa


my girl was 14 months old, but we have seen puppies at 2-3 months old diagnosed


i would visit the vet, this could be something as simple as puppy issues


please keep in touch


Jeanxxxxxxx

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us

 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

March 18, 2017 at 7:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michele
Administrator
Posts: 7216

That is terribly tragic and I can see why you are on alert. I hope your daughter was ok. My girl was diagnosed at 9 months. We have seen puppies diagnosed and we have seen 12+ dogs diagnosed. Hopefully it was just a reaction from the vaccine. 


PS...Congratulations on your new addition! 

--

 Michele


Jackie (10/15/08 - 11/8/15) - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12.  Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup.   TOTW High Prarie, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E:  cisapride and metoclopramide.    Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU.

Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age.   We failed fostering and now he has his forever home :)   At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5)   Victor Hero Grain Free, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor 3 x's weekly, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am.  Hypothyroidism:   Soloxine.    Stable and happy 97 lbs.


March 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Sparkle Tangerine
Member
Posts: 174

So sorry about your dog. Its never easy to lose a pet and even worse when its so sudden.

Montgomery's symptoms showed up when he was about eight days old, but he wasn't diagnosed until last February. He'll be five years old on Monday. When he was small, we didn't question the diarrhea. We had rescued many kittens from that location and they all had it. We initiallly thought he had the same heavy parasite load that the others had. He was thoroughly wormed. By the time he was ready to begin weaning off his KMR, we were quite concerned.

--

Montgomery (DSH orange tabby and white) was born on 21 March 2012. He was hand-raised from five days old and first developed EPI symptoms at eight days old. He was diagnosed in February of 2016.

Montgomery eats RCFHN Spayed/Neutered Kitten. He gets one cupful over six meals each day. He takes two size zero capsules of Pank-Aid enzymes with each meal. He gets one quarter teaspoonful Pet Kelp Probiotic once each day. He gets one size four capsule of Tylosin three times each day. He gets a B12 injection once a month. He is a whopping 4kg! He is fully furred and his skin looks awesome!

"The hardest to learn was the least complicated." - Emily Saliers

March 18, 2017 at 9:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16911

Hi Marilyn, so sorry to hear that your previous GSD was killed in an accident... so heartbreaking!   Do hope your daughter is okay.  

Certainly can understand your fears of possibly another EPI pup.  I agree with everyone who posted above.... have the TLI blood test done... however...how young is your new puppy?????   My understanding is that puppies can have loose stools from so many other things, more so than young dogs..... so maybe first treat with just slippery elm powder and see if that takes care of everything.... and maybe you won't have to go the antibiotic route even if this is EPI... or not.... Slippery Elm is a natural mucilage product (from the inner bark of the American Elm tree) and it helps with loose stools, creates a soothing coating with mucilage in the intestines (so ALWAYS be sure to include extra water when giving Slippery Elm powder), we think it may also address bile acid to some degree and has a very beneficial short-chain fatty acid in it called Butyrate which actually battles  small intestinal dysbioisis.... sometimes eliminating the need for antibiotics to clear up any bacterial imbalance..... worth trying as it is safe, just be sure to buy loose powder... NOT capsules.........  and let us know how much your pup weighs as you don't need to give much.


Oh... and here is some research that you can share with your vet regarding Slippery Elm and it's effectiveness:

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=34284#.U9ZQ7_ldXzt


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Hollis
Member
Posts: 35
Thank you all so much for your advice. My daughter is ok now. It was a horrible accident and the jaws of life had to cut her out of the car. All she could do was ask about her dog when the police got there. She was heartbroken and still has guilt about taking Brisa with her in the car. Praise God that all my daughter ended up with was a concussion. That was a little over a year ago and she has been saving her money for a new pup. My daughter is 19 now and is taking almost all the responsibility of this pup, Zarah. I'm really proud of her. Zarah is 9 weeks old and weighs almost 19 lbs. How much Slippery Elm powder and how often should she take it?
--

 “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.”

March 18, 2017 at 12:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 878

What a horrible ordeal you've all been thru! :(

As everyone has said, it can emerge basically at any time during a dogs life, but I think I would wait a few days after vacs to see if it resolves itself....

Donna

March 18, 2017 at 7:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16911

Oh Marilym, thank goodness that your daughter is okay physically, but OMG... what an awful thing to have happened to her, and i can uderstand how awful she must have felt upon learning that her dog was killed....so tragic.


Okay.... first, Donna gave an excellent suggestion... do wait a few days AFTER the vaccinations.... (thanks Donna!)  to see if the loose stools do resolve themselves as it just might be from the vacs.  


But if it doesn't or if the loose stools comes back.... i am assuming your little puppy weighs at least 10lbs... yes? if so, give jsut 1/4 to 1/2 level tsp of slippey elm powder mix in about a tablespoon of water and then mix in the food....this ought to stop the loose stools..... you can give the slippery elm powder for a week.....however....  if the loose stools come back after you stop the Slippery Elm powder.... then there might be something more than jsut a little gut bacteria imbalance going on and i think at that point i would work with the vet to see if you can scertain what the underlying cause is............


Please let us know how things works out... I hope the loose stools clear up soon  


Oh... and here is yet another article on SE.... i am starting to see more and more vets get on board with SE :)

 (you will have to copy the link and paste in your browser, as our FORUM no longer supports "https" links)

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Slippery-Elm-Bark-for-Dog-Diarrhea-and-Upset-Stomach

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 19, 2017 at 9:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Hollis
Member
Posts: 35
Thank you for all the great information! Her poop is pretty much back to normal. I am keeping an eye on it. I don't know what I'd do without you all! You helped me so much with Brisa.
--

 “He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.”

March 21, 2017 at 9:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2902
Glad the poop is looking good again :)
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


March 21, 2017 at 9:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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