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Forum Home > General Discussion > My Dog was just diagnosed with EPI

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2938
Hi Lela - yes setbacks can happen - either they get into something without us realizing, the food doesn't agree with their system, SIBO wasn't completely resolved etc. With the Tylan - when you get to the end of 45 days do not stop cold turkey - slowly wean off - not sure why but we've noticed when stopping cold turkey SIBO can come back. When switching foods I always mix - make the switch over a few days 75old/25new then 50/50 then 25old/50new. Once fully on the new food give it about 5-7 days to be sure it agrees with your dog.
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


May 19, 2017 at 7:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

.. YES!!! set-backs  / flare-ups are very very common..... what it usually means is that something in the protocl needs to be tweaked.... unfortunately it sounds simple.... but because you have to figure out which component it is of the EPI cornerstone (Enzymes, Diet, B12 or Antibiotics) it can take a little bit of time trying to figure out which component needs tweaking.... and as said abve... the most common culprit is the diet.... not always... but more often than the other components.


WHen trying different foods be sure to keep a detailed journal of the ingredients, brand name, amount given AND the reaction (poo, farts, tummy noises, burping, etc).... this will be best help you and your vet decide what is working and what isn't.


Kepp us posted!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 19, 2017 at 9:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

LelaAdelman
Member
Posts: 14
Sigh! Thanks for all the little tricks. When we get to the end of this round of Tylan I will be sure to start weaning her off. Hopefully whatever threw her off will sort itself out! Do you find that your dog(s) is constantly eating things? Grass,plants, dirt, wood etc... It's like she is constantly scrounging for food? This can't be helping the SIBO!
--

Lela, Steven, and Tula

May 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1964

Hi Lela, sorry I'm late to welcome you

Hopefully once you get dialed in on exactly what your girl needs, the crazy eating everything will stop. 

When they are so hungry before diagnosis they will eat just about anything. Sometimes it just takes a while for that drive to calm down.

Dealing with SID does not help that process any, but I am hopeful as you give another round of Tylan that will help. The tweaking stage is the most challenging as you try to figure out which thing needs to be changed. But you will get there. Take careful notes and only change on thing at a time, wait at least 3-5 days before changing anything else. That way you can identify which thing is working or not. 

Some really struggle with finding the correct food, but again careful notes will help you with this quest. 

I have confidence you will get there! Keep asking questions as you have them!


--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

May 19, 2017 at 4:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LelaAdelman
Member
Posts: 14
Thanks everyone! For the food does it make a difference if it's crude or legume protein as the main source of protein. I decided trybthe Orijen regional red with 38% crude protein,18%fat,4% crude fiber, 12% moisture, 1.9%calcium,1.4 phosphorus, omega 6 2%, omega 3 1%,DHA .4% and EPA .2%,glucosamine 900mg and chondroitin 400mg. The ones that had a 3.5 crude fiber had more then one pea ingredient. I'm assuming yellow pea counts too?
--

Lela, Steven, and Tula

May 19, 2017 at 7:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LelaAdelman
Member
Posts: 14
Thanks everyone! For the food does it make a difference if it's crude or legume protein as the main source of protein. I decided trybthe Orijen regional red with 38% crude protein,18%fat,4% crude fiber, 12% moisture, 1.9%calcium,1.4 phosphorus, omega 6 2%, omega 3 1%,DHA .4% and EPA .2%,glucosamine 900mg and chondroitin 400mg. The ones that had a 3.5 crude fiber had more then one pea ingredient. I'm assuming yellow pea counts too?
--

Lela, Steven, and Tula

May 19, 2017 at 7:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 910

Hi Lelia,

Im very late to the welcome party here, but just wanted to make sure you're feeding 150% of the recommended food for your pup (in much smaller quatities throughout the day of course). As the starvation subsides, the urge to eat inappropriate items should also subside... Of course this is text book, and we all know dogs don't read books, right? ;)

Donna

May 19, 2017 at 8:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LelaAdelman
Member
Posts: 14
We started blending her new food in with her old on Friday. Her bms immediatly increased in size and quantity. From 2/3 small to 4 large. This concerns me as this is how I diagnosed her in the first place. More food coming out then staying in. This is only at the 75%old/25%new. Do I keep going to see if it evens out? Interestingly enough my gut tells me that she might not be able to handle the crude protein? Is legume based ok if I can't get her on track with this latest food?
--

Lela, Steven, and Tula

May 21, 2017 at 11:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Lela... it "sounds " like the new food is not agreeing with her.... although we recommend lower fiber content and usually "peas" is not the best tolerated.... like Donna mentioned above.... although this is "textbook"... these dogs just don't read :).


The best suggestion i can give to you is if the poos are not optimal on the diet you currently have her on.... then try other foods.... but it can get expensive.... so always jsut buy the smallest bag or portion possible.  and keep REAL good notes!


Although we make general recommendations.... it really REALLY depends on the individual dog's (1) underlying health condition (2) dog digestive system because of that health condition (3) dog's indiviudal gut flora... so it is kind of having a guideline but you are still making a stab in the dark trying to find the right food.


Scrutinize each ingredient...and the amount of each ingredient (where it falls in the list of things)....sometimes it is the portion of something that throws the dog off.... but if you are not seeing optimal poos... then something is not exactly right..........


Wish i could give you an easier answer.... but finding the right food can be the hardest part of all.... but so worth it when you do find the right food.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 21, 2017 at 11:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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