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Forum Home > General Discussion > Charley - EPI and Colitis

Pratima
Member
Posts: 107

Hello Everybody

I am back for some advice.

Charley is currently going through on and off episodes of colitis. This is mainly due to changes in her environment - move from India to UK for a year and then back to India this year. Due to these changes it is also worth noting that she has had additional vaccines administered. I have read and also believe that vaccines while helpful, can play havoc with our pet's system.

In my view Charley has definitely been affected due to additional vaccines, and her titer tests (despite additional vaccines) show low immunity! This has led me to believe that she is in a very susceptible condition as far as her tolerance and immunity to infections are concerned. This also means that her body may be dealing with a whole lot of chemicals (vaccines, antibiotics etc) and hence may be affecting her digestion. This could explain the repeated episodes on colitis.

Soon after the additional vaccines we have noticed that the colitis episodes started to show up every now and then. She seems fine for a few days and then goes into episodes of bloody stool, tummy noises, 24 hour fast....the same cycle, then again fine for a few days. During this time we try very hard to avoid further antibiotics (more chemicals). She gets slippery elm every day irrespective of colitis episodes or not.

I am now focusing on getting healthy options included in her diet (gradually) as I really do not want to give her more medicines (unless absolutely necessary).

I will start by introducing some probiotics, I have bought these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Probiotic-Prebiotic-Digestive-Manufactured/dp/B01DCNI1VQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1495109932&sr=8-3&keywords=probiotics+dogs

Additionally I was wondering if it is okay to give her zucchini and celery (mash) to introduce some organic sodium as found in many green vegetables to help ,which is believed to help with the overall digestion.

I am determined to get Charley back on track as she was doing so well. I am concerned that this is also having an effect on her weight

Please let me know you thoughts on the probiotics and mainly on introducing sodium in greens.

--

As of  Dec 2016: Charley is our, 3.11 year old mix breed from India who now lives with us in the UK as of Nov 2015. She was diagnosed in Dec 2014 with EPI after the TLI test back home.

She use to be a happy, crazy 15 kg dog....but had come down to 10kgs in a few weeks during diagnosis. She weighs 14.4 kgs now. She is currently 16 kgs

Morning Meal 7am = 150 gms of Grian free kibble + Chemeys B12 + 1 Lypex + Slippery Elm

Mid day snack = 100 gms of plain yogurt + 1/2 Lypex 

Evening Meal 6 pm = 150 gms of Grian free kibble + 1 Lypex + Slippery Elm

Night snack = 100 gms of plain yogurt + 1/2 Lypex.

May 18, 2017 at 8:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3614
Hi Pratima. Gòd to bear from you but I am sorry Charley is having problems. Have you had her B12 level checked? I am wonderinv if low B12 is at play also. I have asked a question further hopefully we can get you some help with Charley. I am just guessing the veggies are ok. Might add fiber so check that.
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





May 18, 2017 at 9:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pratima
Member
Posts: 107

Hi Jill

She has been getting B12 shots once a month and daily Chemeyes tablets. However I will get it checked. 

Thanks , I look forward to hearing more.

May 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3614
This is from Olesia: "What I know is that it does goes away in fairly short order with the right antibiotics... usually metronidazole works better than Tylan on Colitis.... other than that..all I know is that it is very scary seeing all the blood, but it usually is an easy fix.........."
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





May 18, 2017 at 10:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2938
I am so sorry Charley is not doing well. I don't have any knowledge of colitis. When you start the probiotics - just be sure to start with 1/2 the recommended dose for a few days to see if she tolerates it well and be sure to give it at least two hours away from any antibiotics. I hope she gets better quickly.
--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


May 18, 2017 at 11:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pratima
Member
Posts: 107

Thanks Jill, Olesia and Doc's Mom

I will keep in mind to make only small changes. Will give you some updates ina  few days, but yes I am frustrated that she is not doing so well.

Thankyou.

May 18, 2017 at 11:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1964

I am so sorry to hear about your struggles. I don't have any further advice, just wanted to offer support. 

--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

May 18, 2017 at 11:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3614

Yes Pratima please keep us updated on Charley. 


I know we all try to use antibiotics as little as we can but just keep in mind that sometimes they are the only thing that will work. 


Just a thought!

--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





May 18, 2017 at 1:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Pratima.... hi... am just now getting on the forum and reading things.... i think you may be on to something with too many vaccines..... i personally think too many can wreck havoc with our pups... but exactly what kind of dmage i have no idea.


One thing though... i'd be careful about giving probioitics during a flare-up time... maybe the better thing to do is wait until things calm down before introducing her to the probiotics (which look fine) but for now, just  try feeding her more soothing foods and foods that maybe naturally help what you are trying to achieve  then try a probiotic a little later...... just start REAL slow???   Maybe keep her on a bland diet (baked lean chicken and potato?) and slowly ease into her regular meal?  SLippery ELm is definitely a good thing to help with this... I don't see any harm with cooked mashed celery and zucchini - -both are fine for dogs....


hope Charlies starts feeling better soon!!!!


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 18, 2017 at 3:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pratima
Member
Posts: 107

Thanks Elisabeth and Oledia.

I agree, slow and steady makes senese. Will follow through with the normal diet that her body is use to and bring in the probiotics when she has had atleast a week of stability. 

Vaccines definetely have something to do with it, I just feel stupid that we put her in this position. We live and learn I guess!

I will come back every few days and provide some updates so others can use as reference if needed.

May 19, 2017 at 4:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Hi Pratima.... yea slow and steady and a big dose of patience (that is the hardest part for us EPI parents :D :D:D ;)

Looking forward to hearing (hopefully) positive updates!


Oh.... and please don't beat yourself up.....we have all done things that has been recommended / required..... and then wonder afterwards if it was the right thing to do.... and sometimes we have no choice.  You are doing a great job with Charlie and things will work out ....

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 19, 2017 at 9:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pratima
Member
Posts: 107

Hi All

I wanted to give you all some updates.

Charley has now been receiving the Pro biotics for the last three weeks, she started with just one per day and for the last one week increased it to 2 per day before meal.

In addition to this I have made small changes to her routine. She gets one spoon of coconut oil (virgin) with her meal twice per day. She also gets two to three spoons of zucchini or celery mash twice per day to get some natural sodium into her system (believed to help especially dogs with Colitis) Refer to this site for more info.

http://www.dogcolitis.com/diet-for-dog-health.html

I believe the changes have helped her. She had her last bad Colitis episode on 2 June (prior to this, it was 16 May). I have noticed that it is slowly longer gaps between the episodes compared to the many she had between April and May end (every 4/5 days). Another good news is that her Titer test has showed that her immunity is good enough for her to travel (back to the UK). So this tells me that her immunity is improving, the damage the several vaccines given may be still in her system but we will flush the toxins out with natural and herbal means.

She is looking healthy and in good spirits. If you are confused about the back and forth from India to UK and the other way around - let me explain. We came to UK in Oct 2015 and stayed here till Oct 2016.............before which unfortunately for visa reasons had to move back to India for few months. We cannot imagine leaving Charley in kennel with her condition, so she has gone wherever we go.

We have all our visa and her paper work sorted now, so we will be back in UK on July 25th and this time we do not plan to return to India anytime soon (4 years min).

 

June 13, 2017 at 6:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1964

Wow, sounds like good news all around! 

So glad you are figuring out what will help Charley and no more back and forth will be easier on everyone. 

Thanks for the update!

--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

June 13, 2017 at 8:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2938

Thanks for the update!!  Congratulations on figuring out what works for Charley and glad you won't be having to travel back and forth so much anymore.  Keep us updated!

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


June 13, 2017 at 9:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3893

Pratima, that is a great update.  I am so glad she is much better and you have found some solutions.   You have done an amazing job of dealing with all the traveling and being able to stay calm while you solve her issues.  I really admire all you have done.  


And I'm so glad for you that you won't be traveling for a good long while.


Charley is so fortunate to have you.


Barb

--


June 13, 2017 at 11:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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