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Forum Home > General Discussion > TLI vets say different things/antibiotics

Posts: 910

I would go back to the 1 tsp per cup of food.if your dog has IBD, you are going to need to be careful with food. The hydrolized foods, such as Ultimo and Hills Z/D have had their proteins broken down in a process so that the protein is non recognizable to your dogs body. The thing with IBD is that once the dogs body reacts to a certain protein, it will always react to that protein as the body has deemed it unfit for consumption. iBD is an Anton immune disease, so the body's response it to attack that protein. 

Im making the assumption here that you probably cannot afford and endoscopy now, so what I would suggest (I've had two IBD dogs) is that you find a protein that Lovey has never eaten before (venison, rabbit, kangaroo, quail or bison are just a few that are out there now) in a limited ingredient diet and the fewer ingredients the better. In other words, a single, novel protein and single carb.  I would give that a try first. The reason I am suggesting this is because the hydrolized foods are really pricey. Of course, you may have to go that route anyway, but the novel, single protein and carb are worth a shot, IMHO.

Let us know what you decide to do and know that I'm keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed for you and Lovey!


October 13, 2017 at 9:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 66
endoscopy , wants to do....I feel like that is too soon , especially when we are technically asymptotic - only one little thing that I am taking care of naturally though . No really looking forward to the appointment.

Linda & Mo ��

October 17, 2017 at 10:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 66
My comment was posted in a funny way, just half way

Linda & Mo ��

October 18, 2017 at 9:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 7

I went back to using the amt of powder in my daily log where she was pooping dark formed poops with wrinkles twice daily and then I held my breathe-- not really -- but waiting to see if a change will have an effect sometimes feels like that. I also did the carrot test again and she is still a 24 hour gal.

I am really determined to only make one change at a time as long as she is not getting worse. The first was Tylan and then Metro. The reason for both is she did not respond to Tylan alone for 11 days so tried Metro then had to use both and that is what both vets agreed upon. It is also what we had to do back in June/July. Of course I would like to not use either and I would prefer Tylan but this is where we are now. The second change after the TLI results was to adjust powder. 

After adjusting the powder within a day or two she was already improving on poops. She is not back where she was in August but they are much better--like 3 on Purina poop chart. But they are not consistently that way. The amount is also going down. She is no longer losing weight and I actually think she is starting to put weight back on - slowly. She is still pooping 4 - 6 times a day which is troubling but there is some comfort because the amount is way less and I can pick them up now without a hose. Also she is back to gobbling her meal down in minutes and that is such a huge relief. I was hand feeding her just to get 3 cups in her a day but now I am able to feed her 2 cups every 5 hours so which is 6 cups a day and that makes me feel WAY better. Her tummy is still gurling quite often.

I am trying to wait to see how much she will improve on this course. If her poops stay grainy- which they are- I am thinking of doing like was mentioned above going to LID using new protein and new veggie to see how that goes. 

We have had another hiccup during all of this. I had to take her back in for a bacteria culture from her paws so we are waiting for those results and it's upsetting because now that most likely means another expensive antibiotic. I truly dread the possibility of her getting a bacteria infection one day that has become resistant to antibiotics. I have shampooed her paws with Maleseb and then few days later bathed her with Sebazole. She is living in socks mostly. 

It is a great thing that it is repeated so much to keep a daily log. It helps. 


EPI Dx 10/2016 TLI =1   B12=192   Folate =17.4 Using Enzyme Diane. 66lbs. She has reoccurring bacteria infections. 

Now TLI redone June 27/2017   TLI 8.8   Folate 9  B12 >1000

Currently taking Zeniquin & Doxycycline for bacterial infections. Completed allergy testing and starting SLIT - allergy drops.


October 23, 2017 at 10:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Site Owner
Posts: 16992

so sorry you ar dealing with allergies too...... my non-EPi dog has allergies and it was much more difficult to get that under control than the EPI..... i feel for you!

For bathing dogs with bacterial infection.... what you might want to try, after the antibiotics get it under contol... but to keep it under control is to give a rinse with warm water and baking soda.... baking soda actually kills bacteria and because baking soda also  releases CO2 ...... and CO2 inhibits growth of bacteria which requires oxygen to survive. :).

It is not potent enough to cure the problem but it is a good non-mfg chemical way to control it from flaring up again....


Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

October 24, 2017 at 10:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 910

It sounds like you're dealing with multiple autoimmune issues,,, this is tough,,,i am glad you are considering a food change as this may or may not be related, but certainly could help...

Fingers, toes and paws crossed for you and Lovey!


October 24, 2017 at 6:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Posts: 2938

Glad things are starting to get back on track but sorry you are now dealing with a possible allergy.  If it comes back as yeast, ask your vet about using athlete's foot cream.  My vet recommended it to me for Doc and now whenever his paws start to get red I use the cream and it clears up within a few days.



Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet


YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)

October 24, 2017 at 8:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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