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4Jenna
Member
Posts: 5

We just adopted Jenna.  I had bloodwork done to confirm EPI.  She was so scrawny. I have changed her diet to Hills Rx diet I/D kibble, canned and treats. We have added some cooked carrots and she gets an egg once a week.  To her regular meals we have added Pank-Aid and on her snack meals she gets Pro Soothe GI.  She has gained two lbs so far. I am going to start getting her on B12 Pet Factor vitamins. 

I normally bake dog treats at home for my other dog who does not have EPI. However, I am wondering if the ingredients will be okay for my epi dog. We are trying to get her to gain weight.  The recipe calls for flour, cornmeal, rolled oats, egg whites, molasses, skim milk, water and vegetable oil.  Based 50 count batch of cookies it calls for 2 tablespoons.

Thank you and I appreciate your time and feedback.

October 22, 2017 at 9:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1964

Good morning and welcome to the forum.

FIrst of all, thank you for adopting and saving a life!

Could you give us a little info? Do you have her test results (TLI, B12, Folate), also how much you are feeding, how much enzyme and how are you preparing? This info will help us better answer your questions.

As far as the food and treats go....it looks like you are giving food without enzymes already? Her snack meal? The rule you need to follow from now on is enzymes with everything she eats. I would start with changing that. You can still give her a snack meal, just treat it with enzymes. The ratio of enzymes is 1 tsp per cup of food, so adjust that to whatever size the snack meal is.

As far as the treats, most EPI dogs do better with a grain free diet. Because your treat recipe contains grains, she might not tolerate the treats well. Honestly, as you try to get her stable, it is a good idea to hold on treats for now. Until she is stable for a couple of months--stable meaning good poops and no more weight loss. Once you reach that point, you can give enzymed treats. If you look in the EPI tab above, in the drop down near the bottom is a treat tab. It gives some good recipies and ideas for treats for EPI dogs. 

As far as the food you are feeding, if there are no other health concerns there is no reason for a prescription diet. Of course if something else is going on, you would need to stick with it. Also on that EPI drop down is a Dog Food Options tab. It lists many foods that forum members have had success with. 

Keep us updated!

--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

October 23, 2017 at 8:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Hi 4Jenna's mom ,


Welcome to our EPi family.  Looking forward to hearing what the test results were from the TLI blood work you had done to confirm EPI.

In the meantime, glad you have her on Pank-Aid, as that is one of the appropriate enzymes for EPI.. however.. if you could answer Elisabeth's questions above, that would be great!


Okay.. now ... to answer your home-made treat question... personally i would not feed your EPI pup treats made with this particular recipe..... BUT.... in this recipe "The recipe calls for flour, cornmeal, rolled oats, egg whites, molasses, skim milk, water and vegetable oil. "..........what you can do is substitute the "flour, cornmeal, rolled oats" with potato flour or tapioca flour" .....an greatly reduce the oatmeal portion  or avoid try avoiding the oatmeal all together.  Also... when baking.... do not grease the cookie sheet, but rather try using those cookie baking parchment sheets laid on the cookie sheet instead of greas ing the sheet.


And you can get creative.... buy some dried pure protien, like dired beef liver or.... check out "REAL MEAT" air dried dog food such as chicken, lamb or beef etc.... and crumble and mix some of this in the batter... :) in lieu of oatmeal.

https://www.chewy.com/s?page=1&query=real+dog+food&rh=brand_facet%3AThe+Real+Meat+Company




--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

October 23, 2017 at 11:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Also... we do have a "Treat" page that you might want to check out.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

October 23, 2017 at 11:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

4Jenna
Member
Posts: 5

Thank you for all the advice, truly appreciated.  Took her to vet for weigh in.  She lost 4 pounds.  Ugggh!  She is eatin 8 small meals a day with Pankaid at every meal.  Stools yellowish however solid with bits of brown.  And she is on the b12 supplement.  She is so active and playful.  Fur is nice and soft.  We are going to the Royal Canin prescription diet, just to try it. However I am looking at the President Choice food that is grain free and the analysis on the ingredients seem comparible to the prescription diet.  I have another dog a rescue, non-epi that is thriving on it.  We tried the other expensive brands and he did not like the taste and they were too strong and concentrated.  She is going for a TLI test tomorrow morning.  Then I will ask about the SIBO and the metro med.


November 9, 2017 at 9:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3893

You said that you are having the TLI test done.  Does this mean that the blood work you mentioned in your first post and in your profile to confirm EPI was not the TLI?   


Also, if you are having the TLI done for the first time, don't forget to fast  Jenna for 12 hours and request a B12 level (cobalamin) and folate at the same time. 


Barb     

--


November 10, 2017 at 1:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

4Jenna
Member
Posts: 5

Barb at November 10, 2017 at 1:29 PM

You said that you are having the TLI test done.  Does this mean that the blood work you mentioned in your first post and in your profile to confirm EPI was not the TLI?   


Also, if you are having the TLI done for the first time, don't forget to fast  Jenna for 12 hours and request a B12 level (cobalamin) and folate at the same time. 


Barb     

The Vet said that the bloodwork confirmed EPI.  RBC low, HCT low, HGB and MCV and MCH norm. MCH high, RDW norm, RETIC high, WBC norm, LYM norm, EOS norm, BASO norm, PLT high, GLU norm, UREA low, CREA norm, PHOS norm, CA norm, TP norm, ALB norm, GLOB norm, ALT norm, ALKP norm, GGT, norm, TBIL norm, CHOL norm, AMYL norm LIPA low, NA norm, K norm, C norm

We fasted her for the TLI. Expecting results from IDEXX labs by Tuesday or Wednesday. As far as I understand it was the cobalamin and folate. I am thinking that it may be better to switch her to Diane's enzymes. Any thoughts?


November 12, 2017 at 12:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3893

We have used Diane's enzymes for many years, as have many members here.   She provides an excellent product for much less than the commercial companies.   We are very grateful for her service. 


Let us know the results of the tests when you get them.


Barb 

--


November 12, 2017 at 4:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

I too have been using Enzyme Diane's 6x for over 10 years now..... and am VERY satisfied .  The 6x is comparable to the brand name enzymes Pancrezyme and Viokase,  etc)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

November 12, 2017 at 5:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

4Jenna
Member
Posts: 5

4Jenna at November 12, 2017 at 12:41 AM

Barb at November 10, 2017 at 1:29 PM

You said that you are having the TLI test done.  Does this mean that the blood work you mentioned in your first post and in your profile to confirm EPI was not the TLI?   


Also, if you are having the TLI done for the first time, don't forget to fast  Jenna for 12 hours and request a B12 level (cobalamin) and folate at the same time. 


Barb     

The Vet said that the bloodwork confirmed EPI.  RBC low, HCT low, HGB and MCV and MCH norm. MCH high, RDW norm, RETIC high, WBC norm, LYM norm, EOS norm, BASO norm, PLT high, GLU norm, UREA low, CREA norm, PHOS norm, CA norm, TP norm, ALB norm, GLOB norm, ALT norm, ALKP norm, GGT, norm, TBIL norm, CHOL norm, AMYL norm LIPA low, NA norm, K norm, C norm

We fasted her for the TLI. Expecting results from IDEXX labs by Tuesday or Wednesday. As far as I understand it was the cobalamin and folate. I am thinking that it may be better to switch her to Diane's enzymes. Any thoughts?


Results from test


Cobalamen (Vitamin B12) 1076 High

Folate 67  High

Trypsin Like IMMUNE  Low

Consistent with EPI

So I spoke with Vet he is consulting pathologist today.  I showed him the Diane enzymes website.  

My husband has ordered the 8x Diane Enzymes. 

I am going to stop the B12 vitamins for now. 

Her stools are yellow since I switched from I/D to Royal Canine low fat.  However they are solid.

Vet suggested the antibiotics and possibly a steroid to get the TLI back to normal.

Appreciate feedback.  Looking at switching the food.  Plan to go to the store and look at the labels.  Petsmart and Bosleys.






November 13, 2017 at 2:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3893

Can you give us the TLI number?   The results say, "Low.  Consistent with EPI"  but there seems to be some confusion about what that means.  The TLI will not go back to normal.   Once our pups are diagnosed with EPI,  they need enzyme replacement for life.  


Also, Diane's 8X enzymes are  stronger than the 6X, so she suggests that if you are using the 8X, you start with 3/4 tsp.of the enzymes per cup of food instead of the  1 tsp. per cup that we usually recommend.    I use the 8X for Kolby and I just measure the 3/4 tsp. by adding 1/2 tsp. plus 1/4 tsp. per cup of food.   Too much enzymes can give the same result as too little......but if you use the right measurement, you should be fine. 


Barb   

--


November 13, 2017 at 7:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

4Jenna
Member
Posts: 5

Barb at November 13, 2017 at 7:19 PM

Can you give us the TLI number?   The results say, "Low.  Consistent with EPI"  but there seems to be some confusion about what that means.  The TLI will not go back to normal.   Once our pups are diagnosed with EPI,  they need enzyme replacement for life.  


Also, Diane's 8X enzymes are  stronger than the 6X, so she suggests that if you are using the 8X, you start with 3/4 tsp.of the enzymes per cup of food instead of the  1 tsp. per cup that we usually recommend.    I use the 8X for Kolby and I just measure the 3/4 tsp. by adding 1/2 tsp. plus 1/4 tsp. per cup of food.   Too much enzymes can give the same result as too little......but if you use the right measurement, you should be fine. 


Barb   

Thank you for the info on the 8X.  We are anxious to receive the order as there have been numerous positive reports.

The numbers are Vitamin B12 Cobalamin 1076

Folate 57

Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity <1.00

I purchased the Metronidazole, Fortiflora Purina probiotics, Zantac (Ranitidine) 75mg and Gastro low fat canned. The pathologist was consulted today and said to use canned food for awhile instead of kibble.  And they said to hold off on the steroid use.

I went to Superstore and looked at the canned food to compare the Royal Canine Gastro Crude Protein 6%, Crude Fat min 1% Crude Fat Max 2.5%, Crude Max 2.5% Moisture Max 76%.

I found grain free protein 8%, fat 3.5%, fibre 1.5% Moisture 82% Omega 6 .7% Omega 3 .15%  for the weight control sole, cod, sweet potato spinach & blueberry stew.

Another grain free immune support had protein 8%, fat 4%, fibre 1% moisture 82%, Zinc 70mg, vitamin C 30 mg, omega 6 0.6%, omega 3 0.1%  duck, chicken, pumpkin, carrot and sweet potato stew.

Another grain free hip and joint support had protein 8%, fat 3.5%, fibre 1% moisture 82% omega 6 0.6, omega 3 0.1 glucosamine 200 mg chondroitin sulfate 150 mg. Veal, Sweet potato, broccoli and avocado stew.


 


November 14, 2017 at 1:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3543

Thank you for updating your earler post and yes we can now see she has EPI ! Glad you are ordering from Diane.

That folate is really high! you have been on the pank-aid for a few weeks so normally we expect the folate to come down..firstly the antbotics may address this,but the food you were using has grain in ie rice so this may not have been helping....if the metro and the change to grain free doesnt knock the SIBO out ask your vet for tylan this may take some time to eradicate...ok prebotics needs to be taken 2 hrs at least away from the antis ...so i always gave maddie in her lunch see below...and this is the tricky one finding the right one for your dog...Zantac i cant comment on this but sometimes i think acid reflux is caused by the SIBO and the gut not being quite correct alot of peope use slippery elm for this...so what i am trying to say is keep it simple

With the food is there any reason why you are looking at wet low fat food??? we dont need low fat for our dogs we need a good grain free food eg like taste of the wild ...then to get the weight back in if possible as she is a gsd feed 2 cups 3 times a day with enzymes in every food.

B12 whilst the figures are good at the moment this has a habit of dropping overnight...so i would order the B12 tablets from wonderlabs here is the link and still supplement at elast 3 times per week ...Maddie will have these for life.

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Thank you for adopting Jenna...keep asking questions.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


November 14, 2017 at 5:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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