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Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11
Hello - I am new to the forum. My 7 year old miniature longhaired dachshund (out of my breeding) was just diagnosed this week with EPI after a little less than a year of off and on tests but no diagnosis. I am actually relieved to finally get a diagnosis and get this girl back on the road to health. I am thrilled that there is a forum for us to be able to discuss this illness. Thank you so much! Luna's ideal weight should be about 10 pounds. She has slowly been losing weight and coat. As of this morning, she has been put on 1 week of Metronidazole and per my vet will be on 4 weekly injections of B12, and Pancreved tabs for life. The panel results came back yesterday from Texas A&M with the diagnosis of EPI. I immediately took her back to the vet to start her treatment this morning. My vet was not there and it was very busy so I left a message for my vet to call me Monday to be able to answer a few more questions. My biggest questions are on food for her (vet told me on phone yesterday that I could keep her on her normal food with this treatment but I'm not sure about that) and also whether or not this illness is hereditary. Luna has had only one litter: we have one offspring and the other two are in companion homes. I have read it's important to keep fiber to 4% or less and we have Luna on Purina ProPlan Veterinary Gastroenteric Naturals (we switched her over a week ago to this so it's not her "normal" food). Fiber is 2% max and fat is 9.5%, which I believe should work for her. Her "normal" food was Victor which is 12% crude fat and 4% crude fiber. Do you agree?
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Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
October 28, 2017 at 11:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dar
Member
Posts: 3223

Hi again Eva..... Glad you made it to the forum. Olesia , the site owner answered to the FB page.  We can give guidelines .. but just remember every EPI dog is different. It sounds like either food could work for Luna, How much food and how much many tablets are you using per meal ? I use the powder..so I will let the people with the tablets chime in.  It is good your vet  is on top with the B12.. that is an important factor. Please feel free to share anything with your vet . Also I found it very helpful to keep a journal .. it will keep you sane until Luna becomes stable. There is one under the download tab above you can print out and use.. otherwise, just a notebook will due....what you are feeding,how much , meds, how the poop looks..yes with talk alot of poop here !! ;) 

--

  Dar and Kodi, From Washington state

 ' I aspire to be the person that my dog thinks I am !!'

Kodi (GSD female) , born August 19, 2010 , was diagnosed July 15, 2011 at 11 months .Lowest weight, 47 lbs, weight as of  4/27/2013  62.9 lbs. Our goal for her at this time is now 65 lbs. !!!   And she made it!! .  TLI .07 , Folate 9.4 , Cobalmin 536 .

Kodi is on Pioneer Naturals Whitefish or Venison , 2  cups kibble twice a day with  3/4 teaspoons of enzymes (X 8 ) per cup,from Diane. 1 Trinfac-B capsule once a day. Also 1/8 t. of ground coriander, 1/16 t. of ground fennel seed and cinnamon per meal (for stomach acid and burps). KOdi started having issues again with her feet.. I think it was the peas in the Acana foods..and her poo is good with the Pioneer Naturals too, she is not really happy about eating, but she is happier (or maybe I am to have solved the gnawing of the paws). So we will see how this works !



October 28, 2017 at 12:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2938

Hi Eva - Welcome to our EPI family.  Sounds like you are on the right track already.  I don't use the tablets - a lot of us use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin powder as it's easy to dose and 1/3 of the cost of rx enzymes from the vet.  There's no need for rx food unless there's another underlying medical condition so if you want to try going back to the original food which had 4% fiber you could try that - just watch the poops.  I found through trial and error my boy can't handle 4% fiber - he does better on less fiber.  As for B12 - glad you are getting the shots but please know B12 supplementing is for life with these dogs - you just have to find the maintenance dose.  With regard to the Metronidazole - if you've seen improvement with it then keep using it but if it's for treating SID/SIBO then it will likely take more than a week's worth and you'll need to watch out for side effects of metronidazole toxicity.  We typically recommend when first diagnosed to try just using the proper amount of enzymes and food to see if the gut flora will correct itself and if after a week or two the poops are still indicating SID/SIBO, then we recommend 45days of Tylan - there's information above under the EPI-SID/SIBO tab you can share with your vet.  Ask any questions you have, we are all on this journey together :)

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


October 28, 2017 at 1:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 1994

Hello Eva!  Welcome to you all.  We use tablets and can answer questions you have around using tablets.  it will be interesting to figure dosages as our pups are around 85 lbs. so it will be different!  First thing is the enzymes work best when crushed.  We started out with 1 tablet per 1 cup of food plus one for the bowl (so 3 tablets for 2 cups of food).  Depending on the amount of food you probably need 1 tablet or even less per meal.  It will be trial and error until you find the right amount.  Glad to see you will be getting B12 shots.  Can you let us know how much food you feed per meal and how many meals per day.  thanks!


--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

October 28, 2017 at 4:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11
Hi again. Luna gets about 1/3 cup, 2 x day.
October 28, 2017 at 5:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Riley's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 1964

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you are on the right track with starting treatment. 

I guess the best way is to crush and measure the amount from one tablet and then you can know how much you need per meal. If I am using Terry's formula correctly, you would use 1/3 tab for the amount of food, and I'm not sure if I am thinking of this right, but 1/3 again for the bowl....hmmm hopefully Terry will log back on and tell us if I am doing the figuring correctly!

--

Elisabeth

Riley's Mom from Chesapeake, VA

Riley, 8 yr old Labradoodle diagnosed September 2014 cTLI 1.6

Weight before diagnosis 40 lbs, lowest weight 33 lbs, ready for the Chunky Monkey club as she weighed in at a whopping 42 pounds on 12/19/14!

Update: as of 2/25/15 Riley weighs in at 44.2 pounds!

Update: as of 6/15/15 Riley weighs in at 45 pounds!

Feeding grain free kibble TOTW, 1 tsp of Diane's 6x enzymes per cup of food. (I mix the enzymes in something moist). She is a picky eater--lately feeding her on a flat plate is the way to entice her to eat. 1 cup in the am, 2 cups in the pm, 1 tsp of coconut oil per meal, 1 packet of FortiFlora probiotic in the pm meal.

Began weekly B12 shots 10/23/14. Holding on shots for now.

Began 1 Wonderlabs B12 in the morning, 1 in the evening. Capsule opened up and sprinkled on her food.


*I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is solely from my experience as an EPI dog owner. It is recommended that anything shared or suggested on this forum be discussed with your pet's vet.*

October 28, 2017 at 9:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11

Terry Bin at October 28, 2017 at 4:00 PM

Hello Eva!  Welcome to you all.  We use tablets and can answer questions you have around using tablets.  it will be interesting to figure dosages as our pups are around 85 lbs. so it will be different!  First thing is the enzymes work best when crushed.  We started out with 1 tablet per 1 cup of food plus one for the bowl (so 3 tablets for 2 cups of food).  Depending on the amount of food you probably need 1 tablet or even less per meal.  It will be trial and error until you find the right amount.  Glad to see you will be getting B12 shots.  Can you let us know how much food you feed per meal and how many meals per day.  thanks!


So Terry, you are saying you believe this is a hereditary illness. (PS-we love love love Shiloh Shepherds. We have a GSD as well as our 8 dachshunds and have longed to add a Shiloh to our family for years, just haven't been able to yet). Eva
--
Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
October 29, 2017 at 9:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11

Doc's Mom at October 28, 2017 at 1:07 PM

Hi Eva - Welcome to our EPI family.  Sounds like you are on the right track already.  I don't use the tablets - a lot of us use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin powder as it's easy to dose and 1/3 of the cost of rx enzymes from the vet.  There's no need for rx food unless there's another underlying medical condition so if you want to try going back to the original food which had 4% fiber you could try that - just watch the poops.  I found through trial and error my boy can't handle 4% fiber - he does better on less fiber.  As for B12 - glad you are getting the shots but please know B12 supplementing is for life with these dogs - you just have to find the maintenance dose.  With regard to the Metronidazole - if you've seen improvement with it then keep using it but if it's for treating SID/SIBO then it will likely take more than a week's worth and you'll need to watch out for side effects of metronidazole toxicity.  We typically recommend when first diagnosed to try just using the proper amount of enzymes and food to see if the gut flora will correct itself and if after a week or two the poops are still indicating SID/SIBO, then we recommend 45days of Tylan - there's information above under the EPI-SID/SIBO tab you can share with your vet.  Ask any questions you have, we are all on this journey together :)

I am re-reading al the posts again. I see your dog had/has yeasty feet. So did Luna - is this attributed to EPI as well? Eva
October 29, 2017 at 9:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11
The bottle of Pancreved tabs my vet prescribed doesn't say how much of anything is in it. It just says give two tablets by mouth with each meal daily for life. I will have to verify with her when she calls me tomorrow. Also, the vet tech said they prescribed Metro for a week "just in case" she has any infections going on... I would also like to add for informational purposes that Luna's stool since this illness has been sponge like. Not liquidy and messy, but spongy. Anyone else experience that?
--
Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
October 29, 2017 at 9:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11
I can't find the "upload" button on my profile page to be able to add Luna's picture. Can anyone help me please?
October 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch
Member
Posts: 11
One more question. We add fish oil AND probiotics to our kibble for all our dogs. I asked my husband to not do so for Luna for the time being since she is just starting treatment. Is it OK to continue to add these?
October 29, 2017 at 9:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 910

Hi Eva and welcome to you! I've always used powder as the tablets simply didn't work for us, so I'll leave you in Terry's hands who does use them successfully.

In the beginning, we recommend no other supplements other than enzymes and B12 until your dog is stable, which is three months or more of good, solid, tootie roll like stools. Then you can begin adding them in one at a time to see how he does on them.

Donna

October 29, 2017 at 11:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 910

Sorry - called Luna a he... :)

Donna

October 29, 2017 at 11:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brynn's mom
Member
Posts: 65

Eva @ Tiny Tails Ranch at October 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM

I can't find the "upload" button on my profile page to be able to add Luna's picture. Can anyone help me please?

Either can I!!

--

Maureen

November 14, 2017 at 7:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

Eva and Maureen..... click on your forum handle (example "Brynn's mom") that will bring you to your profile page.

WHen on the PROFILE page.... on the left side, under "actions", click on EDIT PROFILE

This will bring you to "MANAGE PROFILE",  add your image URL link there AND click on the SUBMIT button at the bottom.


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

November 15, 2017 at 3:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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