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Forum Home > General Discussion > B12, Low Fat, quantity of food ??

Grizz
Member
Posts: 3

Grizz has been on the enzyme for almost a week and has gained 7 pounds! He had his first B12 shot at the vet yesterday and I am now wondering if I should or could buy my own elsewhere at a better rate. Where do you get your B12?

I've read that low fiber, low fat diet is best but my vet said that that's not as important as once thought to be. Would you disagree? What qualifies as low fat? 

Grizz's poops are more solid but still have that yellowish color and are super stinky. 

He's still so hungry and will sometimes eat his or our other dog's poop. I'm so hoping that stops when he's not so hungry. How much did you feed yours when you were trying to gain weight back? Grizz would probably eat 8 cups at a sitting.



--

Eva, mom to Grizz, a 2yo GSD diagnosed just before his second birthday. I am trying to absorb info so he can absorb nutrients.

November 14, 2017 at 9:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3543

Well isnt Grizz doing well...and your vet is correct low fat is so last week !! studies actually show that higher fat aids the enzymes ...most of us start with around 15% when they start to age like my Gal around 8 i had to lower the fat but she is still on 12% now...i feed her 3 times a day 2 cups per feed...so 6 a day.

B12 we get in a pill from from Wonderlabs  https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688..but to start i would recommend sticking with the shots to get the levels up and then swop.

The poop yellow and super stinky indicate SIBO is he on atibotics...

Are we dosing 1 tsp pf enzymes to 1 cup of food.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


November 14, 2017 at 10:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 800

I had my dog getting the B12 shots at first...But, it didn't work well for her.  She would feel fine the first few days and a few days before her next B12 shot was due she was bad off once again.  Once the B12 shots were finished  I bought B12 with intrinsic factor and starting to give her 2 a day one at each meal.  I had her B12 tested over a few months at a time to see how it was working and when it seemed stable enough I just kept giving it to her.  It has been 7 years now and her B12 stayed up........ B12 with intrinsic factor from www.wonderlab.com costs about $17 a bottle. Not expensive.   

November 14, 2017 at 7:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16992

I too give Wonderlabs B12 with intrinsic factor... you can get either the "Pet Factor B12" or "Trinfac" they both have the exact same ingredients :)


REgarding the stinking ... yellowish looking poo... those are signs of SID out of control.  Ask your vet for a course of Tylan. It should be given twice daily for a course of 45 days.  The dosing recommendation is by weight and there is research and the dosing chart to support this recommendation on the SID/SIBO page .

http://www.epi4dogs.com/sidsibo.htm


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

November 15, 2017 at 12:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Grizz
Member
Posts: 3

maddie ann at November 14, 2017 at 10:08 AM

Well isnt Grizz doing well...and your vet is correct low fat is so last week !! studies actually show that higher fat aids the enzymes ...most of us start with around 15% when they start to age like my Gal around 8 i had to lower the fat but she is still on 12% now...i feed her 3 times a day 2 cups per feed...so 6 a day.

B12 we get in a pill from from Wonderlabs  https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688..but to start i would recommend sticking with the shots to get the levels up and then swop.

The poop yellow and super stinky indicate SIBO is he on atibotics...

Are we dosing 1 tsp pf enzymes to 1 cup of food.

Thank you! Grizz is not on antibiotics. In this week his poops have decreased in quality. I havent ordered B12 yet either, so I?ll have to take him in. I am dosing 1tsp:1 cup. We?re doing his usual mix of 2 kibbles 14% and 16% fat, at 10 cups per day.
--

Eva, mom to Grizz, a 2yo GSD diagnosed just before his second birthday. I am trying to absorb info so he can absorb nutrients.

November 18, 2017 at 8:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 2938

Wahooo on the weight gain!!!  As Ann stated there's no need for low fat food for an EPI dog - just low fiber 4% or less.  I never did the shots and went straight for the WonderLabs pills and Doc's B12 went from 406 to over 1000 in a short time - for me the pills were just much easier.  And yes, it sounds like you have SIBO going on with those poops - share the information Olesia gave the link to with your vet and when you do the Tylan and come to the 45th day - don't quit cold turkey but rather slowly wean your dog off - sometimes we have found when stopping the antibiotics abruptly SIBO will reoccur.  You're doing a great job - keep up the good work

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


November 18, 2017 at 8:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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