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Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Hello everyone!  We have a newly adopted 3 year old GSD who I suspect has EPI thanks to your great forum discussions.  We have just gotten back his bloodwork and these are the results that were in the non-normal range.

PrecisionPSL 22IU/L  LOW-should be between 24-140

HCT 61%  HIGH-should be between 36-60

Cobalamin 231 pg/mL  LOW-should be between 249-733

We started Pilot on the raw diet immediately when we got him(following the guidelines from Raw Nutrition for Dogs book by Lew Olsen) and he began having diarrhea a week after.  He came to us at 69lbs and we were never able to get weight on him no matter how much he ate, and he itched inceasantly.  I started researching and reading this forum and bought some porcine pancrease powder and gave him two weeks of Amoxicillion.  He seemed to do better immediately and gained 8lbs. in those two weeks.  We took him to the vet and she would not prescribe more antibiotics(I had used my other dogs left-overs).  The itching came back immediately and we brought him in for bloodwork(above).   She is a very nice vet, but does not seem knowledgable about EPI.  She prescribed two weeks worth of Flagyl.  She said he doesn't have EPI, but his belly issues have not stopped-some solidish bits, but very loose.  She also has no knowledge of the raw diet and thinks that it is too much meat for his kidneys.  Ugh.   Can anyone shed some light on this for us.  We are completly lost.  Many thanks for any help.

December 2, 2017 at 7:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3719
So if the precision PSL was 221 that is high according to your range and would tend toward pancreatitis. Do I have that wrong?
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





December 2, 2017 at 9:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3134

Hi and welcome to our group!!!  Thank you for rescuing that gorgeous baby!!!  Did you have the cTLI test done?  The only way to know if your dog does or does not have EPI is by doing the cTLI test which requires at least 12 hours of fasting.  If your vet is suspecting SIBO (now called SID), the recommendation is a 45 day course of Tylan - metronidazole can have side effects that you need to be aware of - there is information above you can share with your vet under the EPI/SID tab above.  If it's pancreatitis, Jill will be a great resource as she has a lot of experience with pancreatitis.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


December 2, 2017 at 9:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Shannon at December 2, 2017 at 7:31 PM

Hello everyone!  We have a newly adopted 3 year old GSD who I suspect has EPI thanks to your great forum discussions.  We have just gotten back his bloodwork and these are the results that were in the non-normal range.

PrecisionPSL 22IU/L  LOW-should be between 24-140

HCT 61%  HIGH-should be between 36-60

Cobalamin 231 pg/mL  LOW-should be between 249-733

We started Pilot on the raw diet immediately when we got him(following the guidelines from Raw Nutrition for Dogs book by Lew Olsen) and he began having diarrhea a week after.  He came to us at 69lbs and we were never able to get weight on him no matter how much he ate, and he itched inceasantly.  I started researching and reading this forum and bought some porcine pancrease powder and gave him two weeks of Amoxicillion.  He seemed to do better immediately and gained 8lbs. in those two weeks.  We took him to the vet and she would not prescribe more antibiotics(I had used my other dogs left-overs).  The itching came back immediately and we brought him in for bloodwork(above).   She is a very nice vet, but does not seem knowledgable about EPI.  She prescribed two weeks worth of Flagyl.  She said he doesn't have EPI, but his belly issues have not stopped-some solidish bits, but very loose.  She also has no knowledge of the raw diet and thinks that it is too much meat for his kidneys.  Ugh.   Can anyone shed some light on this for us.  We are completly lost.  Many thanks for any help.

Jill, my apologies, I had a typo in there, it should be PrecisionPSL 22 U/L LOW-should be between 24-140

December 2, 2017 at 11:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Doc's Mom at December 2, 2017 at 9:50 PM

Hi and welcome to our group!!!  Thank you for rescuing that gorgeous baby!!!  Did you have the cTLI test done?  The only way to know if your dog does or does not have EPI is by doing the cTLI test which requires at least 12 hours of fasting.  If your vet is suspecting SIBO (now called SID), the recommendation is a 45 day course of Tylan - metronidazole can have side effects that you need to be aware of - there is information above you can share with your vet under the EPI/SID tab above.  If it's pancreatitis, Jill will be a great resource as she has a lot of experience with pancreatitis.

Thank you!  He is an amazing boy and we can't believe that someone would have given him up (twice), but we are thinking it was because of these issues.  His TLI came back normal (20.2 ug/L and the norm is 5-35).  I mentioned the Tylan for 30-45 days multiple times, but she would only do two weeks of the Flagyl.

December 2, 2017 at 11:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Administrator
Posts: 3658

Cobalamin 231 pg/mL LOW-should be between 249-733

Have they addressed this...not only with our dogs but also other dogs with malabsorption issues this needs to be rectified...could you ask your vet for a course of B12 our EPI dogs need to be in the 600 range and maintained this way for life.

Also do you have the folate numbers? high indicates SIBO but low can infer a food intolerance.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


December 3, 2017 at 8:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3134

Shanon - many vets are unfamiliar with Tylan and if they are familiar are hesitant because it is used in chickens, etc - HOWEVER - please print out the information supported by research above under our SID tab regarding Tylan and share it with your vet.  If you are dealing with SID/SIBO - two weeks of flagyl will not take care of it.  Another thing you can try to help with the poops is Slippery Elm bark powder (not pills) - I use the NOW brand that you can purchase on Amazon for about $8 - the recommended dose is : 1/8 tsp under 10lbs, 1/4tsp 10-30lbs, 1/2tsp for 30-80lbs, 3/4tsp for 80-100lbs and 1tsp 100+lbs - twice a day am/pm feedings - simply mix with about 1-2TBSP water and pour on top of the food.  SE is a mucilage prebiotic and helps to restore the gut flora.  Ann made an excellent point about addressing the low B12 - there is also information on the TAMU protocol above under the EPI/B12 tab that you can print and share with your vet.  When Doc was diagnosed the vet at the time did not think he needed B12 supplementing because his B12 was within normal limits, however, after reading the research here I decided to use the WonderLab Pet Factor B12 and made sure I told my vet what I was doing - his B12 was over 1,000 shortly after starting the pills.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


December 3, 2017 at 9:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3719
Thanks for the clarification. I agree with Ann, I would ask about B12. It is worth a try.
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





December 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Thank you everyone!  I have Slippery Elm Bark powder and Wonderlab Pet Factor B12 on the way.  My vet will not change the Flagyl to Tylan and will not do more than 2 weeks.  His itching is better in the last 24 hours which make me think the anti-biotic is working.  She doesn't want him to become immune to anti-biotics, so she won't do more.  Maddie Ann-his Folate was normal at 10.2 with the range being 6.5-11.5.

December 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17178

HI Shannon ... first thank you for adopting this GSD and giving him a chance!!!!!  Too many dogs are given up on simply because they have a health condition that has not been figured out.... and is not being thoroughly addressed.  HOepfully you can find some answers to help this sweet boy!


If you can afford it, please ask your vet to schedule a TLI test.  A vet cannot automatically assume that the dog does or does not have EPI. I cannot tell you how many times their "assumptions" were wrong....without the proper TLI test being done.  


That being said.... i too would like to recommend Tylan instead of Metronidazole.  Metro can have adverse effects.  Tylan does not (except for possible allergy which will display with loose stools, not nuerological issues like with Metro) Also... it DOES sounds like your pup has some sort of gastrointestinal issue going on and does sound like SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)... especially with the low B12 too (SID can deplete the B12 levels) .... ANYWAY..... jst a short course of Metro like what your vet prescribed usually  will not fix SID... so IMHO...have a conversation with your vet, read the Tylan research, show it to your vet and have a discussion about trying Tylan for 45 days. It is MUCH safer than Metro and has a MUCH better success rate than Metronidazol.e


IN the meantime.... no matter what the underlying condition is..... you might want to try SLippery ELm loose powder to help sooth the gut (it is a natural prebiotic mucilage made from the inner bark of the American Elm Tree) as it should give immediate relief to your pup.... unless of course your pup has an allergy to the American Elm Tree. (Madelon gave you the correct dosing instructions above for SE.... and if you want you can even give less.  SOmetimes less is even better :). 


It is okay to keep a dog on pancreas powder if it helps.... short term...... but then ALWAYS run a TLI test to confirm that this is indeed EPI and the panceas powder is required, because what you don't want to do is "assume" this is EPI, treat for EPI, when it just might be something else and have unintended consequences happen because the real health concern went untreated.  


FYI.... a dog can be on enzymes and continue to take enzymes and then be scheduled for a TLI blood test (12+ hr food fasting is required prior to the blood being drawn for this).


Very good that your vet did the B12 blood test  - -hopefully you will be starting B12 supplementation ASAP.

I am also wondering, you listed the cobalamin result, which DOES show LOW B12, and your dog should be started on B12 supplementation (see the B12 page please).... BUT.... can you ask your vet what the Folate score was.  They no longer use the Folate score as a diagnostic for SID- -as too many times, the Folate looks normal but yet SID is in play..... but... what i am interested in is the Folate level for possible small proximal intestinal disease.... which would display with the symptoms you are describing and yet not be EPI  or Pancreatitis.   And that's the problem ...the EPI symptoms are the same/similar to so many other health concerns, hence why we strongly advocate doing the TLI test rather than just assuming it is or is not EPI.


Hope this helps a little and looking forward to hearing more from you so that maybe we can better help you.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 3, 2017 at 10:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Thank you so much for all of the info. Olesia.  His Folate was normal at 10.2 ng/ML (range is from 6.5-11.5) and his TLI is normal at 20.2 ug/L (range is 5-35).  I have Slippery Elm Bark and B12 supp. on the way.  I have sent my vet the above links on the page that you mentioned and hopefully she will change her mind about Tylan.  Thank you again for devoting so much time to this page and for helping all of us new people navigate these issues.

December 3, 2017 at 7:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17178

HI Shannon..... okay... thanks for that Folate value...... that shows that it is not small intestinal proximal disease.  That's a relief!  Also the TLI score of 20.2 is definitely not EPI... not even close.... HOWEVER...if you continue to see EPI signs in 6 months to a year and still no other diagnosis... then, if you can afford it, you might want to retest with a TLI test.  We have seen many cases where the number go on th plummet....


The 10.2 Folate.... does NOT rule out SID... there are flaws with all 3 ways of testing for SID.... and too many times SID is present even with normal Folate values, so much so, that vet researchers are now dismissing the Folate value as a tool for SID diagnosis.  


ANother thing you might want to mention to your vet to consider is having your pup's microbiome tested with the :

Canine Microbiota Dysbiosis Index

at Texas A&M Gastrointestinal Laboratory

 

http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/canine-microbiota-dysbiosis-index


 

 

The Dysbiosis Index (DI) is a rapid PCR based assay that quantifies the abundances of 8 bacterial groups and summarizes them in one single number. As a secondary interpretation, the individual microbial profile can predict normal or abnormal conversion of fecal bile acids (i.e., lack of conversion of primary to secondary bile acids). Both interpretations will be listed on the results form.

 


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 4, 2017 at 9:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Thank you Olesia- I have shared all of your information with my vet.  She still will not prescribe the Tylan nor try anything else.  I am hoping with the new supplements it will help a bit, but am concerned about the constant itching.  He is much better since starting the anti-biotic, but she will not do more than two weeks.  She thinks it could be a food allergy and wants me to put him on a vegetarian commercial pet food, which I will not do!  I guess I will just have to see what comes of his new supplements, etc.  Thank you again for your help.

December 6, 2017 at 12:53 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Administrator
Posts: 3658

So glad you are doing the B12 and slippery elm hopefully things will improve let us know.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


December 6, 2017 at 4:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 101

Shannon.  if the itching is from food allergy, you can try a different protein of the same brand of food and product line that you are currently feeding.  My chocolate lab had terrible itching, likcing feet and eventually hair loss until we figured it out.  With multiple trips to vet and lots of $$ spent, we figured it out.  He has allergy to all poultry products.  We saw almost immediate change in itichiness but it took years for him to regrow his undercoat fully.  Now, if he gets anything with poultry he immediately licks and bites at his legs.

My Great Dane with malabsorption also had skin itchiness and mild hair loss.  Instead of multiple trips to vet and multiple food we did blood test.  It revealed allergy to green peas, lamb, rice, corn and mosquitos.   As soon as I got her off those, her itching lessoned and hair grew back.  She has been good so far for the past 2 years. 

I never put them on prescription diet food.  I feel that it's not good quality food and it's way too expensive for what you are getting. 

December 6, 2017 at 6:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Paige's Guardian at December 6, 2017 at 6:06 AM

Shannon.  if the itching is from food allergy, you can try a different protein of the same brand of food and product line that you are currently feeding.  My chocolate lab had terrible itching, likcing feet and eventually hair loss until we figured it out.  With multiple trips to vet and lots of $$ spent, we figured it out.  He has allergy to all poultry products.  We saw almost immediate change in itichiness but it took years for him to regrow his undercoat fully.  Now, if he gets anything with poultry he immediately licks and bites at his legs.

My Great Dane with malabsorption also had skin itchiness and mild hair loss.  Instead of multiple trips to vet and multiple food we did blood test.  It revealed allergy to green peas, lamb, rice, corn and mosquitos.   As soon as I got her off those, her itching lessoned and hair grew back.  She has been good so far for the past 2 years. 

I never put them on prescription diet food.  I feel that it's not good quality food and it's way too expensive for what you are getting. 

Thank you Paige.  Our vet still thinks this is all a food allergy.  We tried taking him off of poultry for two weeks and did not notice a difference.  We do the raw diet, so I really don't think it is an allergy to food, or at least I am hoping it is not.

December 10, 2017 at 7:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3719
You could have your pup take one of the food sensitivities tests. I know Doc and Romeo are both receiving the correct foods and meds after taking these tests to find out what was causing them skin issues, vomiting, etc. Might be worth it in the long run. One is from Dr. Dodds called NutriScan and I will look up the other one for you. Just a thought.
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





December 10, 2017 at 7:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17178

Shannon.... you might want to consider a second opinion from a different vet...........

Maybe give Dr. Jean Dodds a call instead of going round and round if this is a suspected food sensitivity

http://www.nutriscan.org/


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 11, 2017 at 1:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3134

I highly recommend the NutriScan Food Sensitivity test - Dr. Dodds has lots of research behind the test - it's very simple and is done at home then sent to Dr. Dodds.  I received my test results on New Year's Eve - only took about a week and as soon as I changed foods to avoid the things he was even possibly sensitive to the itching and skin infections/ear infections cleared up.  A few months later with Spring he developed a slight itch - I knew it had to be environmental as he had been itch free since switching foods - we did the blood test for environmental allergies and because my vet didn't believe in the NutriScan test I did the blood test for food allergies to - the blood test confirmed the NutriScan results and confirmed he had environmental allergies.  I'm able to keep him pretty stable with the right food and Zyrtec 2x day.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


December 11, 2017 at 2:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Shannon
Member
Posts: 11

Thank you all so much!  I have the NutriScan on it's way and hope that we get some answers soon.  I really am thinking about getting another vet's opinion as well.

December 16, 2017 at 11:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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