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Forum Home > General Discussion > My fur baby stopped eating...

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9
Hi, All. I am new to this site, so forgive me if I ramble or error in any way. Here's my issue...my girl is EPI positive and has been since I rescued her a few years back. When I got her she was underweight and malnourished, but she came from a shelter. I managed to get her on a routine and goid quality food (Fromm grainfree) and she got up to 112 pounds and maintained that until now. She has now stopped eating. Her bloodwork came back normal except her B12 is very low. We started B12 shots this week. Last night she started throwing up. Today I tried to give her the meds the vet put her on and she started dry heaving at the smell of the pill pocket. She has lost 32 pounds over the last couple of months. I am at a loss.... has anyone had this experience? Am I missing something? Please help!
December 23, 2017 at 8:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2021

Hello and welcome.  Thank you for rescueing her and caring for her.  The B12 could be the culprit. Low B12 can make it so a pup doesn't want to eat.  It may take a bit of time to get the B12 up to where it is at the right level but hopefully she will start eating sooner.  One thing to keep in mind is that not everything is EPI related, though it sounds like you are checking for other things.  Can you tell us her breed (or what the mix may be), her age, enzymes you are using?  A little more info about her may help us help you both!

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

December 23, 2017 at 12:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9
Ok. Thank you for your help. Best guess is she is about 5 and a half. Pure bred German Shepherd. Diagnosed with EPI at about 1 and a half. She already had diagnosis when I took her home. We use the 6x dose from enzyme Diane. She has always been on that one as far as I know. No other medical issues unless we find something now. Vet just gave me cerenia for nausea and tylan powder in case SIBO is part of the problem. I have now been tempting her with raw to see if she will eat. I just hope something starts working soon. Any advice is welcome and much appreciated.
December 23, 2017 at 3:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 949

I'm guessing if everything else came back normal, B12 is your culprit. Glad to hear your vet also gave you Tylan in case SIBO is brewing. Give the B12 a chance and entice your pup to eats with whatever it takes!

Let us know how it goes!

Donna

December 23, 2017 at 4:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9
Sorry, not sure why that sent again! Thank you for giving me hope. I think I am heading out to get some liverwurst just in case she turns her nose up at everything else... I will keep you posted.
December 23, 2017 at 5:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 949

Also, please keep in mind that sometimes, as our EPI dogs age, they do require more enzymes... I only had one setback with my girl when SIBO started brewing again and I found that I had to increase her enzymes a bit, so this may be part of what's happening, or not...

Hopefully this setback will be short lived! How have her stools been?

Donna

December 23, 2017 at 5:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9
Stools are still formed and for the most part solid. When this started I attributed it to a lit of changes...I list my male GSD in June, then we moved, but the closings didn't mesh so we lived in a camper for a month, then into our new home. As things settled, she didn't get better, she got worse. I will definitely try increasing the enzymes when she starts eating again! I did get her to eat a bit tonight. I put tylan powder in a capsule (which she immediately spit out...) Any suggestions?
December 23, 2017 at 8:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 74

Cerenia for nausea and vomiting can be given by injection that lasts for 24 hours.  That was the key to my older Great Dane (non-EPI) with aspiration pneumonia due to megaesophagus (ME).  A lot of ME dog owners do give Cerenia as an injection.  Maybe check with your vet. 


December 23, 2017 at 9:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9
Ok. I will ask her. Thanks for all the info! I did get her to eat a bit tonight and take in some water. Still can't get the tylan on board...
December 23, 2017 at 10:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3914

Tylan is very bitter and it can also upset the stomach.....Kolby would not take the capsules without a struggle for months when he was first diagnosed, but I just kept pilling him until he got used to it.    No matter how I disguised it in the food, he would find ways to eat around it and not swallow it.   I even found some under the stove where he hid them when I wasn't looking.  But now he takes them in his food and even opens his mouth for me if he leaves it in the dish and I have to pill him.  Part of the success is getting that B12 up so that your pup has an appetite again. 


She is lucky to have landed with you. 


Let us know how she does.   


Barb


 

--


December 24, 2017 at 2:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3027

Hi and welcome to our EPI family!!!  Thank you for rescuing and loving this sweet baby!!  If the B12 has never been supplemented then that could be culprit.  I would recommend getting the B12 tested so that you have a starting point knowing where it is.  My boy dropped 6lbs when I reduced his B12.  Glad your vet gave you the Tylan - be sure you're giving it twice a day (am and pm feeding) and when the 45 days is up don't quit cold turkey but instead wean off slowly.    So glad you joined our forum - we are all here to help in any way we can :)

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


December 24, 2017 at 5:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Helen
Member
Posts: 9

Hi Neshkys mum. Have you tried warming the food up a little? We have found in the past that a warm roasted sweet potato is nice and easy to wrap around tablets and give to a dog. Like a drugs bomb inside a tasty ball of food.

Really hope things improve. x


--

 

Desmond : Finally diagnosed with EPI 28TH SEPT 2017 following Ultrasound & TLI & blood tests.

 

ENDOCRINOLOGY

 

B12 * 55 ng/L Low (250 - 900 )

 

Folate * 5.3 ug/L Low (6.0 -18.0 )

 

TLI * <1.00 ng/ml Low (5.0 - 40.0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7sgi4zfb2l19mi/File%2018-12-2017%2C%2012%2007%2004.jpeg?dl=0

December 26, 2017 at 8:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17127

Hi !   So sorry you are having issues with your pup....


With regards to Tylan.... if my dog even gets a whiff of it.... she won't touch anything for a couple of days!!!  So... i have learned the following:

Tylan powder gets airborne and the little particle will stick to everything you touch....or it comes near..... the following is how i now give Tylan....

1. work in one section of the kitchen and i pour the designated amount of Tylan (according to dog's weight) into empty gel caps.

2. wash hands with soap and water... just rinsing with water will NOT work

3. now work in a separate area of the kitchen, take a small chunk of cream cheese and make a littl pouch with it (wich your clean hands!)

4. go to other area of kitchen and pick up gel capsul with Tylan powder in it.... drop in cream cheese pouch.

5. lay cream cheese pouch on counter- -wash hands again with soap and water.

6. pick up cream cheese pouch with Tylan capsule in it and now (with clean hands) pinch the cream cheese together so that the Tylan capsule is totally enclosed AND your pup will not be able to smell any residual Tylan powder particles cause you worked withit in a different area of the kitchen AND you washed your hand with soap and water so nothing is now contaminated.



 i KNOW this sound WAYYYYyyyyyyy over the top...... but my dog was such a pain in th butt to give TYlan too and when she refused to eat for 2 days afterwards, i jsut had to figure out some way to get her to take the Tylan... I had no idea that Tylan powder is highly air-borne until i lighted started tasting things and then realized what my dog was also tasting and consequently refusing to take anything with tylan even after i just poured the powder in the empty capsules- -it was the airborne residuals!!!!



SO.... like i saud, way over the top, but above technique will work.


If after the Tylan you pup still does not improve anything.....at that point please do chat with vet about looking at somethig other than EPI causing this issue, although, just based on what you have written so far, it does sound like this just might be "SID" related like your vet suspects...... 

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 26, 2017 at 10:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17127

oh... the other thing i meant to mention..... just in case this is not SID.... and you and your vet need to look at other possibilities.... please mention to your vet, although supposedly not related.... we have seen multiple EPI dogs here on the Forum ... where they all of a sudden loose interest in food, don't eat as much as they usually do, and then literally stop eating.... and it turns on that none of the antibiotics help/it is not SID, no one can figure out what is going on and in the end, it turns out to be a kidney issue.  Just saying this so that you can share with your vet and this might be something your vet can first looks at if not EPI related..................

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 26, 2017 at 12:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9

Thank you all for all your replies.  The vet is leaning towards IBD, but her stools are still formed. Vet says that doesn't mean it's not related. She hasn't eaten since yesterday morning and even then was only maybe a few hundred calories. It was a rough night with dry heaving every hour and a half. At the vet for over 3hours today running more tests.  Very nerve wracking.  She looks tired and miserable.  I can not get her to take ANYTHING. I can't get her to eat even a small piece of chicken, therefore she has had no prednisone or metacolpramide yet today, so even trying the tylan would be fruitless.  I am not giving up. I am going to try liver and then cream cheese. I will keep you posted.  Thank you again...

December 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9

Oh and she got sub Q fluids and another B12 shot today.  Then has thrown up 4 more times.......

December 26, 2017 at 5:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3914

I'm really sorry you are going through this.  I'm glad she's getting fluids.   She is probably depleted. I hope you get some answers soon.  Hang in there.


Barb

--


December 26, 2017 at 7:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17127

just wondering and thinking about your situation.... how are things???


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

December 27, 2017 at 4:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neshky'smom
Member
Posts: 9

Good morning, everyone.. I am not even sure wher to begin...last Tuesday after the vet ran more blood work to check kidney function, my beautiful Aneshka continued to get sicker. I ended up bringing her to an emergency clinic where they stabilized her for the one hour trip to their main facility. During this time her test results came back indicating she was in kidney failure.  She was in ICU for 2 days.  Her pain level was through the roof, they told me you could physically see the change in her as her pain meds wore off. At one point her belly filled with air and they weren't sure if her tummy twisted during that episode. If it did, they think based on ultrasound that it may have twisted back to normal.  She was being monitored 24/7 with no change.  On Thursday, December 28, I had to make the most difficult decision to discontinue treatment as they told me her odds of not surviving were so high. So, I went to her and she lay her head in my lap and I kissed her and told her how special she was as she crossed over.  My heart is broken and I am completely lost without her.  It was 6 months to the day on the 28th that I lost my 13 year old GSD , Diesel to DM.  Thank you all for the information, suggestions and for sharing personal experiences.....

January 2, 2018 at 10:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3654
I am so sorry to hear you had to let Aneshka go. God Speed Aneshka!
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





January 2, 2018 at 1:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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