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Forum Home > General Discussion > New diagnosis for three yr. old tibetian terrior

Yeshe the tibetian
Member
Posts: 7

This is a brief discussion of our experience.  Sept. 2016, dogs weight 33 lbs.  We boarded at our regular kennel, once for 4 days,then again for one week. Yeshe had been exhibited some loose stool.  Started with very loose stool on our return from vacation.  Took to vet, started on 500 mg metronidazole.  Got alittle better, but stool still the consistency of peanut butter.  We discerned that she had a broken tooth, and I felt it was the bacteria that was causing this.  We were now into the holiday season and upon talking to my vet decided to remove tooth after the holiday.  I was in the office Jan. 2, with a dog now 20 lb.  my vet wanted to run one more test, her  TLI came back, 1.3 normal range 5-35.  Surgery canceled of course,  B-12 , 500 mcg given, Viokase-V rush shipped, started 1-5-18.  Yeshe is very quiet, however last evening she interacted with her buddy,our Boston terrier, on th floor like they have always done,  she actually holds his face with her paws, we have not seen that in awhile.  Her stool seems more formed to me.  Our vet has only one other dog in the practice,a German Shepard.  One thing I noticed was Yeshe’s coat has definitely changed.  Tibetans have wonderful hair,shiney ,long, thick,and do not shed. She took on a real dull look.  She is quiet,but I believe we just need alittle time.  Her next B-12 is Jan. 19.  Being new to all of this, we will stay on coarse,steady as she goes and not do any radical changes.

January 7, 2018 at 8:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3652
Welcome to you and Yeshe to the forum. It sounds like you and your vet are on it and getting Yeshe on track. Can you tell us what food you are feeding? How are you preparing the enzymes? How is the poop looking? It takes awhile for the pup's system to get used to the enzymes and changes but the coat should fall into place. Pictures are always welcome!
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





January 7, 2018 at 10:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3030

Hi and welcome to our EPI family!!!  So glad your vet was on top of things and tested for EPI!!  With regard to the B12, when you are done with the 6 weeks of shots please do not stop supplementing the B12 - it is for life with these dogs and can deplete quickly.  You will need to figure out how much and how often your dog needs the B12.  A lot of switch to WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 after the course of shots.

There are four cornerstones to managing EPI: enzymes (most of us use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin 6x - much less expensive than the rx enzymes; the recommended dose regardless of which brand of powder is 1tsp per cub of kibble, mix in luke warm water and incubate 20min before serving); B12 (discussed above); antibiotics (if after a week of the proper dose of enzymes you see no improvement in stool - talk to your vet about a course of Tylan as you may be dealing with SID/SIBO); and food (grain free 4% fiber or less - try to limit chicken and peas).

Keep a detailed log of everything you give and everything that comes out so you know what works and what doesn't. 

EPI is overwhelming in the beginning but we are all here to help you along the way! 

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 7, 2018 at 11:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3914

Hello and welcome!  So glad your vet tested for EPI.   You are doing all the right things.  I heartily endorse enzyme Diane's enzymes.   We have been using them for years and she has saved us so much $$$.   She provides excellent service and an excellent product.  


Keeping a log/journal saved our sanity (well most of it!)  It helped us to see patterns and figure out what worked and what didn't for Kolby.  It also helped us to keep track of any changes we made (only one at a time) and what the resulting poos were.  Seeing what was going on in writing also prevented us from getting totally overwhelmed, although at the beginning we felt overwhelmed many times. 


Trying to balance your pup's food, enzymes, B12, and antibiotics isn't easy at the beginning especially when you are so concerned about how she is doing.   But it will become quite manageable as she improves and you begin to see the direct results of  what you are doing.  


Please ask any questions you have.   We have all been where you are and remember it well.    


Barb


--


January 7, 2018 at 3:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Yeshe the tibetian
Member
Posts: 7

Thanks to all.  I have kept her food the same, Blue, beef.  Natural canned food.  I’m not changing everything for her to ease into changes along the way,if need be. She has had six meals with Viokase-V so far.  This evening she did her snow roll, that tibetians are known for.  Our yard is hilly, not the himalias,but Yeshe doesn’t know that.  We are seeing a spark that has not been for awhile.  Her stool is much more formed and I noticed, there doesn’t seem to be that dumping, shortly after a meal, more like two hours after or so and the color is darker.  Mixing her enzyme with canned food, room temp,for 20 minutes.  Is there a bite or sensation in their mouth with the enzyme ?  Toward the end of the meal, she throws the dry out and eats it on the floor. Steady as she goes.  I am a believer in the properties of honey.  I’m doing some research on that.  No experimenting,just research.  I’m working on photos.  Thanks again. ~~~S~~~~

January 7, 2018 at 5:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 949

Hello and welcome! Yes, the enzymes are in fact caustic and can create sores in their mouths... If you can, try rinsing her mouth out. Or, if you live with snow, as we do as well, my girl would go out and eat snow... It does get better as I equate it with wearing flip- flops for the first time in the spring, or going barefoot... Their mouths get calloused and used to the enzymes.

Donna

January 7, 2018 at 6:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Yeshe the tibetian
Member
Posts: 7

Fed Yeshe 4 small meals yesterday.  She had us up at 10:30 pm and again at 1:30 am.  Stools were fine.  Going back to her regular feed 7 am and 4 pm.  Possible we got over anxious,seeing her feel better. I set the timer on the stove for 20 minutes to make sure I give the enzyme time, ha, she’s so smart she gets it, when the timer goes off I’m going to eat. I am giviving the enzyme alittle more time, doesn’t seem to be as tangy.  I’m curios to know her B-12 count.  Will find out soon and what it should be.

January 8, 2018 at 7:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

worriedparents
Member
Posts: 20

 

Hi, welcome.
Our dog doesn’t have EPI, but due to lack of other answers we are treating him as if he does. It is tough getting everything balanced.

 A couple things you mentioned caught my eye.

When we adopted Finn (a St. Bernard), most of his teeth were broken. He’s not had dental work because he has elevated cardiopet values and didn’t handle sedation well in the past.



After finding this forum, we changed his kibble to a smaller grain-free one and mix it into a large amount of cooked food. Before that, he would spit lots of his other kibble out on the floor, sometimes eat it and sometimes not. We wondered if it was a tooth issue or just didn’t like the brand/size of kibble. We also soak it now, and I don’t know if that has helped but at least he eats it with no problem, and doesn’t run outside to eat snow after every meal like he used to.

You mentioned honey. We have been brushing his teeth with Manuka Honey for probably 6 months or more. My brother used it to prevent mouth sores during radiation treatment, and since Finn has such horrible teeth, we wanted to try something that may prevent infection. It’s not affected his poop that we’ve seen but now we are keeping a journal so we will learn more in the future.



Finn is getting wise to the timer trick too. I hope you find what works for Yeshe.


 

January 8, 2018 at 9:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Yeshe the tibetian
Member
Posts: 7

We cannot believe the change in this girl.  Up all day, tail wagging, playing with our Boston.  I found leaving the enzyme about 5 more minutes really changed how she ate her food.  Thanks for the honey and teeth idea, I don’t believe that tooth is bothering her.  She wants to eat everything, but of course we are not letting that happen. I caught her digging for deer droppings this morning.  She loves bully sticks,I may give her one today to sooth that food hunt.

January 8, 2018 at 2:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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