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EricM
Member
Posts: 3

I am having problems with my GSD Molly.  She was diagnosed with EPI when she was around 1 years old (3 now).  Everything was so bad then, she was around 45 pounds, had diarrhea constantly, and was very lethargic.  After going to the vet  and starting enyzmes, she improved in several ways.  She put on a little weight, and hovers around 52 pounds, and has gotten her energy back, as well as mostly normal stools.

We still have lingering issues, though.  She is very hungry even though we feed her 4x per day, and is constantly trying to get either dog food or get into our food.  She eats her own poop regularly, and often pees or poops in the house at night, and she is still too skinny.  I admit that I have put off trying to solve these problems, but these problems are getting to the point where my significant other is at the breaking point.  I have told her that I would make a last effort to work out Molly's issues.  If I can't help her improve, I will have to give her up.  I am here for any help you guys can provide for me.

Some more details:

  • She eats Taste of the Wild Salmon, 4 cups a day, with a scoop of enzymes from enzyme Diane.  I usually just mix the powder and add some water, and don't let the food sit out for awhile, and aren't sure if that changes anything.
  • She doesn't have a b12 deficiency.
  • She had an ultrasound at the vet (expensive) and they didn't find anything of note.  The vet said something about trying some kind of steroid protocal.
  • I have tried around 5 other foods and she always had diarrhea.
  • I have started trying to add things like pumpkin, coconut oil, rice for extra calories, but I admit I probably haven't stuck with any long enough to see results.
January 8, 2018 at 4:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Bee
Member
Posts: 2

Hi Eric,

Our dog was just recently diagnosed with EPI and I have done a lot, and I mean a lot of research and some things that I read is that some EPI dogs, more severe cases, need to have a raw diet only along with the added enzymes. Some dogs can not eat kibble at all. The raw diet has been shown to greatly help dogs with EPI, because of the additional natural enzymes in the food and the lack of any grains. The literature also discourged giving any treats or table scraps and making sure everytime your dog eats that you are giving the enzymes with the food and allowing them to properly activate. Our vet told me that we should be activating the enzymes with warm water and waiting a minimum of 15 minutes before feeding him. The other thing is being extremly consistent with the food. If you decide to try the raw diet, buy the same brand and keep the consistentcy. There are many benefits to the raw diet and many people have said that it helps put weight on quickly, but the draw back is that it can be expensive. Most of this has come from the research that I have read and from our vet and since my dog was just diagnosed we are at the begining of our journey with this. Hopefully this might have helped a little. Good luck. I will be praying for your family and your dog. 

January 8, 2018 at 5:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 74

Hi Eric.  Sorry Molly is having such a rough time.  This is definitely the place to get some help. 

We do need a bit more information.  If you could let us know which enzymes she is getting, how much in teaspoons each meal and how many cups of food per meal.  It does make a difference how much enzymes are provided per cup of dog food.  Are you mixing a little lukewarm water with the enzymes and letting it sit for 20 mins before feeding?  That can help. 

Also, has she had B12 checked recently.  It is common practice to supplement with B12 shots or oral B12 even if she is low.  Also, a check of B12 and folate can give information about SID (bacterial overgrowth in the intestines) which can be helped with an antibiotic called Tylan. 

I am sure others with more experience will chime in but providing some further information will allow them to help you come up with a plan. 

January 8, 2018 at 9:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2021

Hi Eric,

It sounds like you have been through a lot and honestly, it doesn't sound like she has really been stable.  I know it can be frustrating and wanting to see results ASAP but patience is a key.

Looking at what you have written there are a few things that jump out at me:

*Amount of food: it is recommended to give 150% of normal amount of food for the weight they SHOULD weigh...so figure what should be her weight (52 is thin for a GSD), see what the package states she should get for that weight and then had 50% more!  I know it sounds like a lot but it really does work....dividing into 4 meals a day is perfect.

*Enzymes: what is a scoop?  She should receive 1 tsp of 6x enzymes per 1 cup of kibble...the amount is very important.  With her eating her own poop and always being hungry makes me think she is not getting enough enzymes.  If not giving 1 tsp per 1 cup please increase to that amount.  If giving that amount then increase...1/8 teaspoon at a time...wait 3 days and if still not seeing improvement then increase another 1/8 tsp.  Too much enzyme can be as bad as too little....so if a scoop ends up being more than 1 tsp for the 1 cup then decrease.

*B12:  when was it last tested and what were the numbers.  Two issues here:  one is many vets are fine if it is anywhere in the normal range (which goes down to 250) but EPI pups need it to be 600 at least.  Second is it can drop over time and sometimes very quickly.  So if not tested in the last 4 months I would test again...and esp. if it has been a year or more.

There are a few other things but bit tired....I hope this helps.

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

January 9, 2018 at 2:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Yeshe the tibetian
Member
Posts: 7

Terry, thanks for that enzyme calculation.  I am a new tibetian Epi diagnosis. I believe I need to cut back ,from 11/2 teas. To possible 1/2 teas.  We had some bile like vomit, this a.m..  also, the dogs bedroom smelled like enzyme this am which made me think of gurd.   Thinking about Molly, sometimes less can be more, and not too many changes at once can be good.  These conversations are a great resource.  I do believe this eating of feces, doesn’t let one get a handle on bowel habits, nighttime, having to go out,going in the house etc.  I have started picking up everything, we have 3 pups, and taking my tibetian out on a leash.  Has helped to montitor, her progress.

January 9, 2018 at 8:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3027

Hi Eric - welcome to our EPI family.  If you can answer Terry's questions that would be a great help as to offering suggestions.  EPI is overwhelming in the beginning but once you get your dog stable it's just a routine part of life.  One thing I highly recommend if you're not already doing it is keeping a daily journal of everything you give and everything that comes out and only make one change at a time so you know what's working.

Unfortunately it sounds like your pup has not been stable for quite some time so I would highly recommend going back to basics - just food, enzymes, B12 (cut out all extras like pumpkin, coconut oil, etc).  Do not give any treats or any food that is not treated with the enzymes.  To start with I would get the B12 tested so you have a baseline to know where it is - if it's under 600 then you need to supplement - you can either do the shots or order the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 (no rx needed and very inexpensive) and start with 1 pill a day (B12 supplementing is critical to EPI management and is for life with these dogs - they cannot maintain their B12 without supplementing).  Next be sure you are giving the proper dose of enzymes as Terry stated above and feed 150% of the food over 3-4 meals - be sure to mix the enzymes with luke warm water and incubate with food for 20 minutes before serving.  If after a week or so you don't see an improvement, then likely you are dealing with SID/SIBO - what do the poops look like?  Does she have any gas or burping or tummy rumbling?  If so, talk to your vet about a 45 day course of Tylan - there is information on our SID/SIBO page under EPI above that you can print out and share with your vet.

Don't worry - with a little patience and following our suggestions hopefully we will get your sweet girl healthy and stable.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 9, 2018 at 9:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

EricM
Member
Posts: 3

Terry Bin at January 9, 2018 at 2:01 AM

Hi Eric,

It sounds like you have been through a lot and honestly, it doesn't sound like she has really been stable.  I know it can be frustrating and wanting to see results ASAP but patience is a key.

Looking at what you have written there are a few things that jump out at me:

*Amount of food: it is recommended to give 150% of normal amount of food for the weight they SHOULD weigh...so figure what should be her weight (52 is thin for a GSD), see what the package states she should get for that weight and then had 50% more!  I know it sounds like a lot but it really does work....dividing into 4 meals a day is perfect.

*Enzymes: what is a scoop?  She should receive 1 tsp of 6x enzymes per 1 cup of kibble...the amount is very important.  With her eating her own poop and always being hungry makes me think she is not getting enough enzymes.  If not giving 1 tsp per 1 cup please increase to that amount.  If giving that amount then increase...1/8 teaspoon at a time...wait 3 days and if still not seeing improvement then increase another 1/8 tsp.  Too much enzyme can be as bad as too little....so if a scoop ends up being more than 1 tsp for the 1 cup then decrease.

*B12:  when was it last tested and what were the numbers.  Two issues here:  one is many vets are fine if it is anywhere in the normal range (which goes down to 250) but EPI pups need it to be 600 at least.  Second is it can drop over time and sometimes very quickly.  So if not tested in the last 4 months I would test again...and esp. if it has been a year or more.

There are a few other things but bit tired....I hope this helps.

  • Food Amounts -  I looked at the nutritional information and I am feeding 4 cups a day, which is recommended for a 90lb dog.  Using your suggested 150% and her estimated normal size, I should probably be feeding around 4.5 cups a day.
  • Enzyme Amounts - I give her a little less than 1 tsp with each meal.  I have tried more, but she would get sores in her mouth, would still eat poop, and didn't gain any weight.  I can try to up this a little again to see how it goes.  I am going to commit to not feeding her eggs or meat off the table since I wasn't using enzymes.
  • B12 - The first vet gave me b12 shots, but she was so strong and skiddish about needles I couldn't administer them.  The next vet we went to tested b12 and told me the levels were normal, but I don't know the exact value.  I do remember her taking metrizane sp? for a week or so right when she was diagnosed.

My wife is very clean, and just cannot take when she has an accident in the house.  I woke up panicked this morning, assuming that if she had an accident we would be taking her to the shelter today.  Last night I doubled the 3rd meal (and enzymes) and skipped the 4th meal to avoid a night accident.  This worked, but she was visibily hungry at night, staring at me and whining.  

We are going to the vet today.  My plan is to ask about Tylan, as we never gave this to her.  I also want to ask about the specific test results, and think about b12 supplementation anyways.  Is there a pill for this?  The shots just aren't feasible, she is too strong.  

I also don't want to think about this option, but I want to have a plan in place to avoid having to take her to a shelter.  Is there rescue organizations that take dogs with EPI?  Again this is a last resort, but I want to do everything possible for Molly.

January 9, 2018 at 10:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 74

Hi Eric, I am available so will respond until others have some time. I am not sure if Madeline mentioned this already, but definitely keep a journal and be consistent for 4-7 days to see how she responds before changing something else. 

From what I have learned here, 1tsp per cup of dog food is the standard and should start with that consistently until you know how she responds with the loose stools.  To limit mouth sores, add lukewarm water and let it sit for 20-30 minutes.  If this is absolutely not possible, or she still gets mouth sores you can place the enzyme powder in capsules.  Capsules can be purchased on Amazon.

You are correct about no other food or treats.  At least, not until she is stable. 

I sympathize with you about the B12 shots.  I have a 110# Great Dane, she is old but very strong and stubborn.  Luckily, she is now on monthly shots only so, if I can catch her when she is laying down I have better luck getting all of hte B12 in her.  There is B12 with intrinsic factor that are in pill form.  I am sure Terri or Madelon will give you that information. 

For your wife being so clean, I have 5 dogs and if they have bowel or bladder issues I put them in an area of the home that is tile or non-carpet area.  You can also consider crating her just at night-time.  She may whine a little to wake you if she needs to go outside.  And, maybe just a 1/2 cup food/enzyme in the evening before bed will hold her tummy until mornings. 

I have 5 rescues with all their "issues" including malabsorbtion and another with megaesophagus.  Its' a wonder I have time to get to work at all.  Anyways, once they are stable and I have their routines down w/o deviation from ME we have done well. 

January 9, 2018 at 11:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

FionaB
Member
Posts: 2432

Hi EricM


I agree with Terry, it does sound like your dog has not been properly stable.

Try giving 1tsp of enzymediane to 1 cupfull, but do incubate by mixing the enzymes with warm water (body temp) with the kibble and leaving for 20minutes minimum - this will help with the mouth sores.

EPI dogs struggle to maintain B12 and levels can drop overnight, so even if it was good last time it was tested it might be low now.  Injections are not the only option.   Wonderlabs sell B12 with intrinsic factor which EPI dogs have great sucess with.


I am glad you are talking to your vet about Tylan, it can make a huge difference to EPI dogs.  Bacteria from undigested food can build up in the small intestine and Tylan will help to manage this.


If you haven't done so already have a look at the EPI Quick Guides  there is a lot of information there to help you.


The major of EPI dogs can become stable and live normal lives, and we are here to help you get there with your dog.  


Fiona 

--

Fiona and Dexter


                       

                                     


Dexter, Rough Coated Lurcher

Adopted from The Dogs Trust at 17 weeks on 30th May 2011

Dexter was diagnosed on 19th October 2012 cTLI 1.5 B12 689pg/m

weighing 14.3kg

current weight 21kg  


Millies Wolfheart  Kibble  Gundog recipe

Panzym 3/4 tsp per 185g of kibble  2x per day

B12 injections fortnightly given at home

Tylan 1/8 tsp 2x daily for SID (SIBO)

or Oxytetracycline as necessary


 *Please note:  I am not a vet, anything I share or suggest on this site is just from my experience as an EPI dog owner.  Please share with your vet anything that is suggested to you on this forum.*

 Based in Whitworth, Lancashire, UK

January 9, 2018 at 12:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3027

Hi again Eric - thanks for the updated information.  As I said, if I were you I would go back to basics.  If you have been feeding table scraps without enzymes that could be part of the problem as it can bring about SID/SIBO.

So, there are four cornerstones to effectively managing EPI:

1.  Enzymes (I would go back to basics and start with 1tsp per cup of kibble - mix with about 2oz luke warm water then mix in food and let sit for 20 minutes before serving);

2.  B12 (I discussed this above - here's the link to the pills we use - my vet did not think it was necessary to supplement when Doc was diagnosed but after reading here I ordered the pills and let my vet know - he said Doc would pee out any extra so as long as there's not another medical condition where too much B12 is a problem you should be okay with 1 pill a day to start https://www.wonderlabs.com/newshowitems.php?search=pet+factor;

3.  Antibiotics (Tylan for 45 days and then slowly wean off);

4.  Food (when Doc was diagnosed I was using Taste of the Wild but for a 95lb dog I was feeding 6.5-7 cups a day so just double check your math - if it says 4 cups a day then feeding 150% would be 6 cups a day - i highly recommend feeding in 3 meals of 2 cups each because it's easier on their system to digest.

Once you get the B12, Enzymes and Tylan going with the proper doses hopefully you won't have any accidents.  It can be a struggle in the beginning but these dogs seem to have an extra special bond with their owners and are so amazing it makes it all worth it.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 9, 2018 at 1:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

EricM
Member
Posts: 3

Can I premix the food for the day and leave it in the refrigerator?

January 9, 2018 at 4:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Donna
Member
Posts: 949

Hi Eric,

We don't usually recommend this until your girl is stable and obviously, she's not...

I don't want to sound harsh, but EPI takes a bit of work and you have to be willing to do the time... If you simply bring your girl to a shelter, she'll likely be put down as they simply don't have the manpower or resources to figure it out. Of course this in not indicative of all, but for many it's a sad reality...

There is no magic answer, I don't care what's been said here, there just is not... It takes time, patients, and determination to make it work, but when it does, you soon forget that your dog was even sick! :)

Donna

January 9, 2018 at 8:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 839

Hi Eric,  first the shelter no matter what they say will have her put down.  There is no way that they will understand how to deal with an EPI dog.  Plus your dog will be under extreme stress in being left there which will cause your dog to stress out and be extremely loose in the poop dept.  very bad move. I run Have A Heart for Companion Animals for many years and have done a lot of reseach on many subjects related to dogs and shelters so I am talking from experience.

I would tend to suggest  Doc's mom's suggestions. 

B12 has kepted my dog stable for 7 years already.  I use the the same B12 capsule as Doc's mom from wonderlab.  It is cheap around $17 and I give my dog 2 a day one at each meal.(she eats only 2 meals a day)  I place it in the bowl and she eats it up with her food.  This I did instead of the shots because it was not keeping her B12 up and stable. This B12  HAS TO HAVE INTRINSIC FACTOR IN IT. (it helps with the digestion of the food process) Regular B12 will NOT work.  I did this for a few months and had her tested about 2 different times to be sure her b12 was 600+.  This is a tremendous help to your dog. EPI dogs have to have their B12 level above normal always.

If you balance the enzymes with the powder enzymes and it works for you and your dog great.  Your dog can be getting sores in her mouth and that is why she is having a problem eating..... If all else fails there is enzyems capsules that you can purchase without a perscription from Chemist Warehouse It is called CREON I can get 6 bottles (100 capsules in each bottle).  It will cost me 6 bottles (100 capsules each)....$220.14 .  I give my dog (2) 10,000 Creon with 2 cups of dog food at each meal.  This amount works for her.  This is the cheapest and you don't need a perscription from your vet. Creon is used for humans but works well for dogs and you don't have to do anything but give it to your dog and then maybe wait a couple of minutes and feed them. I have been using this for years it works and my dog doesn't get sores in her mouth anymore.

  REMEMBER ALL THESE VETS DON'T REALLY HAVE ALL THIS INFO. TO WORK FROM NOR DO SOME REALLY BOTHER.

Stick with one dog food (no chicken, no rice in it AND NO TREATS OR ANY FOOD UNTIL YOUR DOG IS STABLE AND THEN BE VERY CAREFUL TO USE ENZYEMS WITH IT.  FOR NOW I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU NOT ADD ANY TREATS WHATSOEVER.      AL SO,  SEE THE ORANGE LINE ABOVE "Downloads" click and then click on "EPI Quick Guides" This will give you an all around picture of what needs to be done.    Keep a daily track of what you are giving or not giving your dog so you can see what is working or possibly not. 

BUT, THIS CAN BE WORKED OUT AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A WONDERFUL DOG TO LOVE....IT TAKES TIME PATIENCE AND IT CAN WORK    And remember don't stress take your time get all the parts working and your dog will get better.  Stick with a good dog for that has the not alot of fiber no more that 4%.... I use EARTHBORN dog food (Great plaines).  It is a good dog food for an EPI dog you might want to try a little at a time till you switch over with any dog food you decide to us.      LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING ABOUT YOUR PROGRESS  IT WILL WORK PROMISE.

  


January 9, 2018 at 10:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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