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Forum Home > General Discussion > Is hand feeding bad??

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14
My German Shepard is 2 1/2 years old and was diagnosed when he was around a year old. We did blood work done on him and found out he had epi. He was very under weight and wasn't looking good at all. I have finally managed to get him at a good weight of 81 lbs. I used to put cheese in his food to help him eat and he would eat 3 cups per meal 3 times a day. I recently tried him on a prescription diet and he didn't do well. I went back to his old diet but his tummy wasn't taking the cheese or wet food in well. I since have began to hand feed him because he now is eating 2 times a day 3 cups a meal of kibble without his cheese or wet food. I'm trying to have him back to eating his third meal to gain those pounds he lost. If i don't hand feed him he won't eat which is why he stopped eating his third meal. He's been a good boy with the hand feeding and is always a gentlemen when eating out my hand. I've noticed it has helped him eat.I hand feed him half his food then he eats the rest on his own. My question is that am I doing wrong by hand feeding him. I'm constenly getting told that I'm babying him because he is a very smart boy, and that I shouldn't do that that he'll be okay if he doesn't eat one of his meals and will eat on his own. I'm very very scared of him losing weight because I have struggled so very much to get him to 81lbs, and I'm terrified when he doesn't eat or even loses a pound. Hand feeding is working so well right now for him but I'm constenly getting told to stop and that I shouldn't. Am I doing wrong with him by hand feeding him??
January 12, 2018 at 7:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 101

I have had dogs almost my whole life so, more than 45+ years.  I think that if it is working for you to get him back to eating, then it's ok with the objective of getting him back to eating on his own.  If our dogs are ill, then we do whatever it takes to get them to eat.  But, as they get more healthy with a more normal appetite then we work to get them back to their usual schedules. 

With that said, I would also recommend that he have his B12 checked.  EPI dogs should be in the upper range of B12 and when low, this can affect appetite.  Also, you should consider SID and you can read more about that on this website.  That also can mess with a dog's appetite but also, limit the dog's ability to continue gaining weight. 

At the end of the day, your dog should have a good appetite and eat when food is placed down.  If he doesn't and this is a change then I would look into other causes of his diminished appetite (i.e. low B12 and/or SID).  Talk to your vet. 

January 12, 2018 at 9:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 885

Hi Amanda,  Don't be afraid if your dog won't eat his 3rd meal. He might not be as hungry as you think.  My dog gained her weight back just by eating her 2 meals a day.  I was told years ago if your dog skips a meal don't be concerned he will eat the next day.   You keep feeding him by hand and he may think this is the way it is.  

I have another dog sometimes he won't eat and if I sit with him on the floor I feed him out of my hand and then he will eat on his own or not.  Sometimes it is not a big deal they are not wanting to eat. If I put food down my dog hears a slight noise and he stops and has to know what is going on. lol   Don't be scared.  It will be alright.

      

January 12, 2018 at 10:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Paige's Guardian at January 12, 2018 at 9:16 PM

I have had dogs almost my whole life so, more than 45+ years.  I think that if it is working for you to get him back to eating, then it's ok with the objective of getting him back to eating on his own.  If our dogs are ill, then we do whatever it takes to get them to eat.  But, as they get more healthy with a more normal appetite then we work to get them back to their usual schedules. 

With that said, I would also recommend that he have his B12 checked.  EPI dogs should be in the upper range of B12 and when low, this can affect appetite.  Also, you should consider SID and you can read more about that on this website.  That also can mess with a dog's appetite but also, limit the dog's ability to continue gaining weight. 

At the end of the day, your dog should have a good appetite and eat when food is placed down.  If he doesn't and this is a change then I would look into other causes of his diminished appetite (i.e. low B12 and/or SID).  Talk to your vet. 

I took him recently to a specialist because his regular vet refused to give us b12 shots and said his levels were normal but when we retested his blood work with the specialist his levels were very low and he's been on b12 shots for a month. I did mention to her that I thought he might have had other problems such as the SIBO/SID since he tends to throw up a lot and always has weird noises going on in his tummy and she told me to try the b12 shots first. I'm just a bit worried because since switching him back to his old diet his appetite has been a bit less.
January 12, 2018 at 10:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Marilyn Marinelli at January 12, 2018 at 10:06 PM

Hi Amanda,  Don't be afraid if your dog won't eat his 3rd meal. He might not be as hungry as you think.  My dog gained her weight back just by eating her 2 meals a day.  I was told years ago if your dog skips a meal don't be concerned he will eat the next day.   You keep feeding him by hand and he may think this is the way it is.  

I have another dog sometimes he won't eat and if I sit with him on the floor I feed him out of my hand and then he will eat on his own or not.  Sometimes it is not a big deal they are not wanting to eat. If I put food down my dog hears a slight noise and he stops and has to know what is going on. lol   Don't be scared.  It will be alright.

      

Thank you. I always get so worried because his lowest weight was 48lbs and I have been able to get him to 81lbs but he's lost a couple of pounds due to not really wanting to eat. A couple months ago his doctor told me I wasn't feeding him enough, at that time I was doing 2 times a day 3 cups, which is what he's eating right now since he hasn't been interested in a third meal and he's seems his normal self but I'm always worried it's not enough for him.
January 12, 2018 at 10:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 101

Amanda, it sounds like you have a better vet.  Did the vet tell you how long to try the B12 before heading back to the vet for consideration of SID/SIBO?  I would think that b12 should be better after 1 months of weekly shots so, have you seen a small change in appetite so far.  The tummy rumbles, regurg/vomiting, etc are signs of SID/SIBO.  Also, loss of appetite is also sign of SID/SIBO. What are his stool consistencies? 

I would stay the course and not worry about what other people think about hand feeding.  Continue to make sure your goal is to get his appetite back to normal so that hand feeding is not required.  Return to the vet and request Tylan for SID/SIBO.  if you check the SID/SIBO page, you can print out the info for the vet.  It shows that Tylan powder should be taken for 6 weeks.  Be very careful how you give Tylan powder since it is very bitter and when given in food some dogs will stop eating eating their food.  You sure don't want to go down that road. 

January 13, 2018 at 5:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 17178

HI Amanda, everyone has given you spot-on suggestions above... so i won't repeat except to say.... if you and your dog are comfortable with doing a little hand feeding... then it is perfectly fine.   :)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

January 13, 2018 at 9:26 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Paige's Guardian at January 13, 2018 at 5:46 AM

Amanda, it sounds like you have a better vet.  Did the vet tell you how long to try the B12 before heading back to the vet for consideration of SID/SIBO?  I would think that b12 should be better after 1 months of weekly shots so, have you seen a small change in appetite so far.  The tummy rumbles, regurg/vomiting, etc are signs of SID/SIBO.  Also, loss of appetite is also sign of SID/SIBO. What are his stool consistencies? 

I would stay the course and not worry about what other people think about hand feeding.  Continue to make sure your goal is to get his appetite back to normal so that hand feeding is not required.  Return to the vet and request Tylan for SID/SIBO.  if you check the SID/SIBO page, you can print out the info for the vet.  It shows that Tylan powder should be taken for 6 weeks.  Be very careful how you give Tylan powder since it is very bitter and when given in food some dogs will stop eating eating their food.  You sure don't want to go down that road. 

he started his shots off as once every two weeks and then once monthly. He hasn't vomited since the shots and his tummy noises are less by I still hear them. I put him back on his old diet on December 19, almost a month ago, and his appite hasn't been the same. He's less hungry and he typically won't finish all of his food which is why I hand feed him to make sure he finishes it. I'm lucky if he finishes two meals because he really isn't interested in eating anything. I feed him 3 cups a meal and he eats about 2 cups of it and won't touch the rest for hours. When I first put him back on his diet he wouldn't eat anything so it has improved since hand feeding him but it's still not where I would love to see him at. Ever since switching back his stool has been a little firm but mainly soft. He's had better stool before. Thank you very much I will definitely take him in to get him some of the Tylan powder.
January 13, 2018 at 4:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Epi4Dogs at January 13, 2018 at 9:26 AM

HI Amanda, everyone has given you spot-on suggestions above... so i won't repeat except to say.... if you and your dog are comfortable with doing a little hand feeding... then it is perfectly fine.   :)

Thank you!!
January 13, 2018 at 4:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 101

Thanks for the info.  B12 shots are usually 1x/week for 1 month; then, 1x/every 2 weeks for 1 month; then, 1x per month.   I will leave you to decide what to do but you can always ask the vet for a recheck of B12.  It does sound like the B12 is helping.  If his stools were firm with the regimen you have now and nothing has changed, I would definitely want to give Tylan powder a try.  But even with that, if the stools are not improved he may need a pinch more enzymes.  If I remember right, Olesia says to increase by 1/8 of a teaspoon.   This would help his stools but I don't believe that will do anything about his appetite. 

I don't know if this will help but when my Dane was recovering from Pancreatitis it took awhile for her appetite to come back.  I bought Grandma Lucy's freeze dried food.  I used about 1/4-1/2 cup with warm water and added enzymes. I added her dry dog food.  i let it incubate 20 minutes.  It smells really good and she has been eating that forever now. 

January 13, 2018 at 4:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Paige's Guardian at January 13, 2018 at 4:54 PM

Thanks for the info.  B12 shots are usually 1x/week for 1 month; then, 1x/every 2 weeks for 1 month; then, 1x per month.   I will leave you to decide what to do but you can always ask the vet for a recheck of B12.  It does sound like the B12 is helping.  If his stools were firm with the regimen you have now and nothing has changed, I would definitely want to give Tylan powder a try.  But even with that, if the stools are not improved he may need a pinch more enzymes.  If I remember right, Olesia says to increase by 1/8 of a teaspoon.   This would help his stools but I don't believe that will do anything about his appetite. 

I don't know if this will help but when my Dane was recovering from Pancreatitis it took awhile for her appetite to come back.  I bought Grandma Lucy's freeze dried food.  I used about 1/4-1/2 cup with warm water and added enzymes. I added her dry dog food.  i let it incubate 20 minutes.  It smells really good and she has been eating that forever now. 

Last I spoke with the specialist she wanted an update sometime next week to see how he was doing. I will definitely check out his b12 level again to see if I need to give it to him more often and will ask her for the Tylan powder. Right now for powder he's getting two table spoons and a half of enzymes. I'm horrible with math but the measurement I have is 1/2 teaspoon and he's getting 5 scoops of enzymes with his 3 cups of kibble per meal. If his stool doesn't firm up I might add just a tad bit more of his enzyme. Thank you so much for the advice, if he still isn't eating I'll try switching him over to that food. Thank you so much!!
January 13, 2018 at 9:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 885

Go to EPI in orange at top click then click on B 12.... this is the first that you will read....but read the rest so you educate yourself........"82% of all EPI dogs have insufficient B12 levels that if not corrected will inhibit the dog from optimally healing. Lack of weight gain, lethargy, lack of appetite, continued loose stools, etc., all suggest possible insufficient B12."  Don't forget to read the rest yourself....

Amanda the B12 level needs to be above normal always for an EPI dog  600+.  When my dog was on the shots she was good at the beginning of the week and by the end of the week she was not doing well at all.  This went on for months. My vet decided she didn't want to do the B12 shots anymore.   GOOD THING SHE DIDN'T  Why,  because I found out from this website info that I could give my dog  capsules B12 with intrinsic factor. (Not regular B12 but with intrinsic factor...)The reason is that the intrinsic factor helps your dog with his digestion of food.    

If nothing is working well for your dog you can purchase B12 with intrinsic factor from www.wonderlab.com it cost around $17 a bottle they ship it quickly.  I started and do give my dog 2 a day  one at each meal ..I place it in her bowl with her food and she eats it up.  This has made a HUGE difference. Her B12 level has stayed up for years.  She is now a little over 7 years old.      If you use this know your dogs B12 level and then after about 3 weeks have your dogs B12 level tested...if it starts going up keep going with it and have your dog check another 3 weeks later.  I bet this will help solve the B12 problem. 

January 13, 2018 at 9:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2059

Hello.  I have a few questions.  You stated he is getting 5 "scoops" of enzymes.....what is a scoop in terms of teaspoons/tablespoons?  The usual ratio is 1 tsp per 1 cup of food...and too much enzyme can give you as bad an outcome as too little.  So if the scoop is 1 tsp (or more) and is getting 5 to 3 cups of food that might explain the soft stools.

Low B12 can affect whether a dog wants to eat or not.  So if the B12 is still low it can be a reason as to why he isn't eating without the hand feeding.

Have you weighed him lately?  You have switched food and one thing we often overlook is the calorie per cup of the kibble as they really range.  So if the current food has more calories per cup than the last food he just may not need to eat as much.  I would look to his weight.  If the weight is stable and at the weight you want than 3 meals may not be needed.  You could also try a really small meal before bedtime....like 1 cup with 1 tsp of enzyme.

Hope this helps.

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

January 14, 2018 at 1:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Marilyn Marinelli at January 13, 2018 at 9:58 PM

Go to EPI in orange at top click then click on B 12.... this is the first that you will read....but read the rest so you educate yourself........"82% of all EPI dogs have insufficient B12 levels that if not corrected will inhibit the dog from optimally healing. Lack of weight gain, lethargy, lack of appetite, continued loose stools, etc., all suggest possible insufficient B12."  Don't forget to read the rest yourself....

Amanda the B12 level needs to be above normal always for an EPI dog  600+.  When my dog was on the shots she was good at the beginning of the week and by the end of the week she was not doing well at all.  This went on for months. My vet decided she didn't want to do the B12 shots anymore.   GOOD THING SHE DIDN'T  Why,  because I found out from this website info that I could give my dog  capsules B12 with intrinsic factor. (Not regular B12 but with intrinsic factor...)The reason is that the intrinsic factor helps your dog with his digestion of food.    

If nothing is working well for your dog you can purchase B12 with intrinsic factor from www.wonderlab.com it cost around $17 a bottle they ship it quickly.  I started and do give my dog 2 a day  one at each meal ..I place it in her bowl with her food and she eats it up.  This has made a HUGE difference. Her B12 level has stayed up for years.  She is now a little over 7 years old.      If you use this know your dogs B12 level and then after about 3 weeks have your dogs B12 level tested...if it starts going up keep going with it and have your dog check another 3 weeks later.  I bet this will help solve the B12 problem. 

After his vet refused to give me B12 shots I went online and bought some B12 pills for him. He was getting 3 pills a week. When I took him to his specialist she told me his B12 level was really low and that she would have expected his level to be a bit higher since he was taking in the B12 in orally. She said because he wasn't able to get a higher B12 level on the pills she gave me the shots to see if that's would help body his levels up. I'm going to get his levels retested again so that I can see what's going on with him. Thank you!!
January 14, 2018 at 12:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Terry Bin at January 14, 2018 at 1:21 AM

Hello.  I have a few questions.  You stated he is getting 5 "scoops" of enzymes.....what is a scoop in terms of teaspoons/tablespoons?  The usual ratio is 1 tsp per 1 cup of food...and too much enzyme can give you as bad an outcome as too little.  So if the scoop is 1 tsp (or more) and is getting 5 to 3 cups of food that might explain the soft stools.

Low B12 can affect whether a dog wants to eat or not.  So if the B12 is still low it can be a reason as to why he isn't eating without the hand feeding.

Have you weighed him lately?  You have switched food and one thing we often overlook is the calorie per cup of the kibble as they really range.  So if the current food has more calories per cup than the last food he just may not need to eat as much.  I would look to his weight.  If the weight is stable and at the weight you want than 3 meals may not be needed.  You could also try a really small meal before bedtime....like 1 cup with 1 tsp of enzyme.

Hope this helps.

The scoops I give him are in teaspoon. I tried to give him 3 scoops and even 4 but he got real bad stool until I gave him 5 scoops. He got a lot better but still a tad bit soft and he's had better stool before. His highest was 81lbs and last I weighed him about a month and a half ago he was 77lbs. 77lbs is what he use to be when his vet told me that I wasn't feeding him enough. So now that he's back down to 77lbs I'm a bit worried. I will reweigh him this week to see if he has gone up or down in weight. He doesn't look bad though when I look at him his tummy it looks good just like when he weighed 81lbs but I'm still a little worried. I will definitely look into the calories to see if he's good with just eating two cups and getting full. Thank you!!
January 14, 2018 at 12:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3134

Hi.  Terry gave you great advice - thanks for picking up on the enzyme ratio Terry!!!  Some dogs do better with a wee bit more enzymes but 5tsp to 3 cups of food is a lot.  If you are not seeing optimal results I would go back to the basics - 1tsp enzyme per cup of food, B12 supplementing (if using WonderLab try 1 pill per day), food (grain free 4% fiber or less).  Be sure to keep your detailed log so you know what's working and what isn't.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 14, 2018 at 2:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Amanda Molina
Member
Posts: 14

Doc's Mom at January 14, 2018 at 2:51 PM

Hi.  Terry gave you great advice - thanks for picking up on the enzyme ratio Terry!!!  Some dogs do better with a wee bit more enzymes but 5tsp to 3 cups of food is a lot.  If you are not seeing optimal results I would go back to the basics - 1tsp enzyme per cup of food, B12 supplementing (if using WonderLab try 1 pill per day), food (grain free 4% fiber or less).  Be sure to keep your detailed log so you know what's working and what isn't.

Hi thank you!! I will lower his enzymes to see if that will help with his stool. He used to do oral b12 but because he wasn't In taking it fully like he should have his specialist put him on the shots. He is currently on the natural balance sweet potato and vension grain free formula. The fat is 10% and fiber is 4%. I have a journal I keep for him and I write down daily how he does. Thank you!!
January 14, 2018 at 3:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2059

If the B12 was low that would also explain the sloppy poops.  So though you thought it was the enzyme it could have been the B12.

One thought: each dog's transit time (from eating to pooping that particular meal) varies from about 12 hours to 72 hours.  You want to know when you make changes which poop is reflecting that change.  One way to do this is to grate/cut up carrot into one meal and then watch for the orange of the carrot...it's not digested.  That will tell you the transit time for him.  Then when you log a change (B12, enzyme, food, etc.) you can then judge when you are seeing a result from that change.  We recommend one change at a time...and giving it at least 3 days to see how that change works.

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

January 14, 2018 at 7:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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