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Forum Home > General Discussion > Help Needed for Saxon

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My poor boy is boney, barely eating, and I'm at wit's end. He did not test for EPI but has all symptoms since 2014 (at 5 yrs. old) when my green tripe provider Tom Jaeger strongly suggested EPI. The enzymes turned him around & he (usual ups & downs with poops) was doing great until the past month. After antbiotics for ears, appears to have SID. Now won't eat, has loose, watery, brown poops, lethargic, is losing more weight. Vet RX'd tylosin - he threw up. He won't eat food with enzymes, so he's been off them for a month. She also RX'd Creon for him in capsule which I will try this morning. Vicious cycle - can't give med w/o food in his stomach. I'm terribly confused and scared. Can I give him the Creon before his first meal of the day, feed him (if I can - if I can find something he'll eat), then give the first tylosin (she changed from powder & I finally received the chewable - he won't eat it)???  Sorry for this; I seem to be shaking as I try to type it. You all have helped enormously as I consult this site all the time & whatever I find usually works. Until now. (Giving methylcobalamin - vet will do more testing when he's stronger. She's trying to help; I direct her here.) Saxon is a long-haired GSD, 8.5 yrs. old, sweetest dog ever. I cannot lose him.


DOB: 05/23/2009 - TLI 17.9 (12/0/2016); B12 181; Folate 18.2; PLI 31.

Weight: 112-114 lbs.; Last: 01/05/08: 105 lbs. 

Have vet who treats as EPI. Has had seborrhea, yeast infections/ears; Bloat/Torsion - 06/13/15.

On modified raw/home-cooked food diet - high protein; Used WonderLabs B12 w/IF, Bone meal, NuPro, BioCoat, Curamin, Omega 3-6-9, CoQ10, Wild Grizzly Salmon oil, NWC Total Biotics, Bug-Off Garlic, raw green tripe, cooked chicken, salmon, yogurt, cottage cheese, kefir, pumpkin, sweet potato - varies. Use titers; have current Rabies Vaccine Exemption from State of Ct due to recent skin issues. Was malnourished when brought home at 8 weeks; ate as though starving. Had severe heart murmurs which disappeared rapidly using CoQ10 & other supplements. Always a gulper; now eats 3 meals/day w/monitoring to avoid another bloat episode. 

Using BioCase V (& EnzymeDiane), Springtime's Joint Health, MSM, organic coconut oil.  

January 13, 2018 at 7:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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Posts: 17178

Hi Sherry... i am so sorry Saxon is having such a bad time right now.  To answer your question... NO... do not give CREON without food.  Either give with food or give 5 minutes before you know Saxon will eat.  What you can also do.... is "if" Saxon eats anything.... THEN give him CREON immediately after he ate whatever he ate.

I do have a question though.... has he ever had the TLI test to confirm EPI???? Or have you just gone on the assumption he has EPI based on his response to enzymes?

Usually when you see loose watery brown poops the first thing you consider is some sort of food sensitivity or allergy.... or he could have some sort of bug he picked up ...

However.... you mentioned that he had to have antibiotics to clear up his ears.... been there done that with my other pup- -constant battle... until i discovered that she had an allergy..... once we figured that out and treated... the ear infections stopped..... soooooooooo.... i am just wondering if maybe one possibility of part of what might be going on is a food sensitivity... of course, once they feel misearble they start vomiting and even the "right" food won't fix things until their vomiting stops.......  sometimes it helps to jsut not feed them for a day and let things settle down.....

If your vet thinks part of the issue might be a food sensitivity or allergy...... once you get the vomiting under control- -ask to try a small bag of Royal Canin "Ultamino"   ... it is a hydrolyzed food.

Regarding the Tylan....years ago i used to have to literally make a pouch out of cream cheese and then pour the designated amount of Tylan into the pouch seal it and give it to my dog that way- -she REFUSED anything with Tylan and i just had to get it in her!  But what i learned is that Tylan powder is air-borne.. and even though i camouflaged it in cream sheese, little Tylan particles where on my hands and fingers and she still souldn't take it... so i learned to prepared the Tylan (enclosing it) and then wash my hands to soap and water (just rinsing will NOT removed the Tylan particles) and then i was able to give her the encase Tylan after she ate and all got better.   I am just sharing this to let you know that even if the Tylan is in pill form- -your fingers might be still picking up some Tylan particles ..... 

With regards to him throwing up the Tylan..... sometimes that happens and it is not the Tylan that makes them puke but rather whatever is making him ill.... and that anything (at this moment in time) will make him puke.... i would try again with the Tylan AFTER you get some food i him....because there is the situation if Tylan is given on an empty or tummy, some dogs will puke just from that scenario............

Please keep us posted and we will help as best we can AND please be sure to share with your vet everything we are suggesting to you.


Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

January 13, 2018 at 9:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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