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Forum Home > General Discussion > B12 injection frequency

mjzheng
Member
Posts: 4

Hi all, 

Been dealing with EPI since a confirmed diagnosis back in October 2017. 
Results:

TLI : 1.9 (range 5.7-42)
B12: 168 (range 251-908 )
Folate: 6.9 (range 7.7-24.4)

We started with injections weekly for 6 weeks and then doctor recommended switching to monthly after that. She was doing fabulous when treatment first started, gained all her weight back quickly. But this monthly b12 has not seemed to work at ALL. We tried capsules (wonderlabs with intrinsic factor) and they did not seem to help. Every time I have hit the 2-3 week mark her poops get progressively worse. I went in for individual b12 shots twice now at the ~3 week mark and it helps immensely.

Anyway my doctor is open to creating a more frequent b12 injection schedule, but I just wanted to get an idea if people doing only injections are doing it as frequent as every 2 weeks long term? Almost everyone in the FB group I am in is using wonderlabs but it just doesn't seem to help :(. We are going for retesting today of b12 and folate levels to see where they are because I am on week 3 of no injections now. 

Oh forgot to mention we are using enzyme diane 8x about 3/4tsp per cup food. I have tried playing with this and it doesn't seem to make much difference. I incubate with warm water for 30-40 minutes before each feeding.

(also apologies in advance if I messed up forum rules, I took a look over them and tried my best, but this is my first post!

January 29, 2018 at 2:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2048

Hello!  Some dogs just can't hold their B12 (our two for example)....we have been giving B12 injections at home for years.  Sometimes with boarding (or forgetting) we might miss a week or two but  otherwise it is weekly.  It will be less expensive and less hassle if your vet will show you how to do the injections and then buy the B12 and syringes from them.  A vile of B12 costs $17 (I think) and even with 2 dogs weekly we have to throw it out before finishing it as it expires.  I forget how much the syrings/needles are, but not much..esp. compared to going to the vet weekly.  From what you wrote I would do weekly for a couple of months to get the levels up and then maybe to every 2 weeks and maybe stay there long term.  

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

January 29, 2018 at 5:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3076

Hi.  Every EPI dog is different - I know there have been members that have had to give injections once a week - some have used a combination of injections and pills.  The frequency just depends on your individual EPI dog.  

Out of curiosity - when you used the WonderLab pills how many/how often were you giving them and how much does your dog weigh?  When Doc was first diagnosed he was about 75lbs - I gave him two pills a day and his B12 went from 406 to over 1000.  When I tried to reduce to 1 pill a day he dropped 6lbs quickly - so I went back to 2 pills a day and he gained it back.

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


January 29, 2018 at 8:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

mjzheng
Member
Posts: 4

Hey guys thank you for the replies.

@Terry Bin -- I do have a vial of b12 and a bunch of needles/syringes at home that I have ready to give..My vet is just trying to help me come up with a schedule. honestly if she doesn't agree I will probably just self dose it at weekly or 2 weeks and see how it goes. Comforting to know that it is not just my dog that seems to need more... I see so much about "once a month!" I was starting to worry that something else might be wrong


@Doc's Mom -- I was giving 2 pills a day, my girl is 72-74 lb at a really good weight so I thought it would be enough. Admittably I only tried them for a few weeks then just gave in and did an injection but I will definitely continue those again to see how it works out.

January 29, 2018 at 8:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2048

Hello (may I ask your name?)!  BTW you did not do anything to mess up the forum rules....your question and information provided is just right!  You might want to do the pills and the B12 either weekly or every two weeks and then test in a month or two and see where you are at.  Anything they don't need is peed out.  The blood test for B12 is a little pricey but might be worth doing again after starting a new protocol for a month.....then based on the results you can decide what to do (for instance if barely 600 I would keep up two pills a day and weekly injections..if giving weekly)....if closer to 800 or 900 you might be able to continue with the pills and drop down to every 2 weeks on the injections.  We find it easier to give the injections as they get other pills we just don't see the need to add another daily pill or two when once a week injections are easier for us and they do well with that.  As we all say....every pup is different.  There's a protocol but you adapt as works for your pup (name?).

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

January 29, 2018 at 9:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marilyn Marinelli
Member
Posts: 863

I went from injections of B12 years ago ...to two B12 with intrinsic factor from wonderlab a day.  One for each meal.  It took a little while ...I first had my dog test for B12 after a few weeks and then again and then one more time.  My vet thought why?? so many tests for B12.  Because I needed to know that the B12 was going up, staying up and then I felt right in what I was doing.  That was 7years ago and I still just give Ruby the B12 capsules 2xaday ...hope this helps you in your decisions.  

January 30, 2018 at 12:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3589

Hello with regards to the B12 you have been given great advise and believe me i will have B12 engraved on my tombstone somewhere it   was the lack of it that prevented my gal from being the  ideal  weight i only swopped to the pills once her B12 was in excess of 900 and  then  i went to the pills and retested to ensure they were maintaing her levels.

However what i also notice from your results is that the folate is low Folate: 6.9 (range 7.7-24.4) this can indiciate a food sensitvity as well...have you had this retested...or this may have been resolved if you changed the food /protein source after the EPI dx.

Just thought i would mention that.

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


January 30, 2018 at 6:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

mjzheng
Member
Posts: 4

Thanks all! My name is Megan and my girl is Lara :) I attached a pic of her yesterday at the vet running another GI panel. I have switched the food but didn't know that it would possibly be a food sensitivity that caused a low folate..I don't remember what food she was on at the time (i was trying several to try to fix the weight loss) but one or two of them did irritate her so I will be interestd to see how it reads this time! 

Thanks all for the advice :)

January 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

mjzheng
Member
Posts: 4

Hi all, just wanted to update you that my hunch was correct..her new labs (retest) came back and her b12 after 3 weeks of no shot was at 318. Up from the 168 but still much too low, so we are back on weekly injections for the future :)

February 5, 2018 at 4:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3679
Beautiful pup Megan!
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





February 5, 2018 at 5:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3076

Glad you got the test done and are going back to weekly shots as that B12 is definitely too low.  She's an absolute doll by the way :)

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


February 5, 2018 at 9:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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