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Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6
Hi all! New to the forum. My dog was just diagnosed with EPI. He had an astonishing weight loss with hearty appetite, new onset food aggression, loose foul smelling yellow stools, eating poop....well all the symptoms. Had his blood work sent off to Texas A&M after working him up for other conditions such as parasites, etc... Vet said TLI score was 1.1 (I think) and Cobalamin level low. I will get a copy of lab results next week. I need to take him in for B12 injection on Monday. They are shipping the PancrePlus to my house, haven't started the enzymes yet. After research, I am transitioning him to Natural Balance LID potato and duck formula dog food. My big question is that I would like to order enzymes from Enzyme Diane. Should I get the 6x or 8x? And how does the enzymes compare to PancrePlus which is what my vet suggests? (She seemed to discourage me from ordering Enzyme Diane) Thanks for any help. I can't wait to get Chewy started on his way back to good health.
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Mary, Chewy's mom
February 10, 2018 at 3:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2048

Welcome and glad you have a dx to work with.  Though no one likes to have their pup have EPI it is a very manageable disease.  I think the best option is to contact Diane with your questions.  We use tablets so I've never used powder but from what I understand the difference is mainly how much enzyme you give per cup of food.  People have great success transitioning to EnzymeDiane from the vet prescribed enzymes so I wouldn't worry about that.  Can you tell us a bit about your pup:  name, breed, age, current weight and goal weight.  More info we have about your pup the better we can assist.

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

February 10, 2018 at 3:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6
Oh! Thanks for your quick reply! His name is Chewy... He is a mixed breed dog that I found as a stray on the side of a busy highway. He is a chow mix with maybe a bit of Australian shepherd. That was 7 years ago. The vet estimated him to be about 1-2 years old at the time, which makes him 8 or 9 now. He was a skinny 32 pounds heart worm positive and broken leg. We nursed him up to a healthy 45 pounds and he has been super healthy ever since until the last few months. Now he is down to 31.5 pounds, so scary. I wish the vet could have given us some enzyme so we didn't have to wait for UPS. We've had him to the vet so many times in the last month wasting time while he got skinnier and skinnier. When she mentioned EPI and I googled it, I was like "this is it!!" I've done a lot of research waiting for the test results, down-loaded a form so that I can keep a close record of food amts, stool quality, lab results, etc.. I just need to get started now. the vet gave me the option of tablets vs powder. Do you open the tablet and add it to food or just give the tablet whole with meals?
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Mary, Chewy's mom
February 10, 2018 at 4:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6
Oh, never mind! I see that you crush the tablet. Then do you mix it evenly throughout the food? Also, do you add water to the kibble or is the half can enough liquid. I was under the impression the kibble had to be wet. Currently we are giving Chewy 1 cup kibble in the AM mixed with 1/2 can of IAMs and same for the PM. I will probably add an afternoon meal to help him gain the weight.
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Mary, Chewy's mom
February 10, 2018 at 4:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3076

Hi Mary - welcome to our EPI family.  Thank you so much for rescuing this sweet baby - poor thing on the side of a highway - how heart breaking!!

As for the enzymes - there should be no issue switching from the rx enzymes to Dianes - her enzymes are top quality and many of us have been using them for years - thankfully she orders in bulk and passes the savings on to us.  I recommend the 6x - it's easier to tweak the measurements as you use 1tsp per cup of kibble to start.  With the 8x you use 3/4tsp per cup of kibble to start - they are the same enzymes except the 8x is a bit stronger so you use less - however when tweaking and dealing with measurements I personally find it easier to divide a whole number than a fraction.

Glad you are starting B12 - please know that B12 supplementing is for life with these dogs so once you are done with the shot protocol you need to find the maintenance dose/frequency that's right for your dog.  A lot of people switch to the WonderLab Pet Factor B12 pills after completing the shots as they are inexpensive and easy to administer.

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and everything that comes out so you know what's working and what's not.  Feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be but divided into smaller meals throughout the day (3-4 feedings) until the weight is gained.  Ask any questions you have, we are all here to help guide you along the way!

--

MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


February 10, 2018 at 5:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6
Thanks Doc's Mom! What I didn't mention is that chewy was laying next to a dog that was already hit by a car and dead. It was the saddest thing. I already had 2 dogs at home and had promised my husband that we would never have more than 2! Well he got over it I suppose, haha! Chewy has the best temperament, such a nice dog! I will have to upload pictures soon. Thanks for all your tips. It has been confusing for me. One more question....Do you add water to the kibble? Thanks! And I will be ordering from Enzyme Diane!
February 10, 2018 at 6:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Bin
Member
Posts: 2048

It is recommended to add some water....it helps dilute the enzymes, which can cause mouth sores but usually with the added water that doesn't happen.  We add water with the tablets too.  To give you an idea of how much we do I divide one can full of water between 3 food bowls of 2 1/2 cups of kibble and 1/3 of a can of canned food....

--

Terry

Mom of three EPI Shiloh Shepherds: 

Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009.   Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009.

Weight 10/31/11 was 76.6; 85lbs on 9/22/12; 85.5 lbs. on 11/13/14.

Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. 

His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006  and was dx with epi June 2010.  Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side.  Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss).

Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs.  Weight 11/13/14 was 83 lbs.  B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10.  She receives B12 shots weekly at home.  B12 in September 2014 was over 1,000.

Both are fed twice a day and we use Merrick BG brand: 1 1/2  cups kibble in the morning with 1/2 can dog food with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups kibble with 1/2 can dog food  with 4 crushed tablets. 

Moku was born 4/15/14 does not have epi.  His grandfather is Taiko's and Pharaoh's father (through his mother).  On 11/05/14 his weight was 78 lbs, on 12/11/14 he was 85.7 and on his first birthday 15 April 2015: 90.2 lbs.

February 10, 2018 at 8:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6
OK, Thanks, Terry. It's all starting to make sense and not feel so overwhelming to me. It doesn't take that much water. Do you also let it incubate for 20 minutes before feeding? My vet said something like, "well, the studies are conflicting, you actually don't have to let it sit". She is a Texas A&M grad I might add and very young....but I think I'm still inclined to wait the 20 minutes. Also, I read that you could pre-mix the enzymes and kibble in baggies for meals, then just empty this in a bowl and add the water. This would make it easy for me when we travel. Does anybody pre-make their meals like this?
--
Mary, Chewy's mom
February 11, 2018 at 12:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3679
Hi Mary. Thought I would share this article with you that mentions Natural Balance LID diet: https://www.wthr.com/article/fda-to-investigate-dog-food-that-exposed-pets-to-euthanasia-drug
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





February 11, 2018 at 1:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 3920

Hi Mary.  A warm welcome to you and Chewy.  Getting to the diagnosis is the hardest time for all of us, before you know what is wrong with your pup.   The second hardest time is getting everything in balance when you first begin treatment.  So you are doing very well.  Chewy is so lucky to have you.  


Please don't worry a bit about switching to Enzyme Diane.   I was a wreck when I thought about switching 8 years ago when Kolby was diagnosed,  and it turned out to be the easiest transition ever.  There was not even a slight reaction from Kolby, who reacts to everything when it comes to changes in diet.   Diane is wonderful to work with and she has saved all of us so much money.  


I'm glad you are keeping a log/journal.  It saved our sanity.  It definitely helps you see what works and what doesn't.  


I use about 1/4 cup of water with the enzymes per 2 cups of food.   Everyone has their own way, but I dissolve the enzymes in the water in a small container with a lid, so I can shake it, then pour the enzyme/water mixture over the kibble.  I wait 20-30 minutes because Kolby has a tendency to get ulcers, although not so much anymore.   We used to have to wait 45 minutes, so this is better.  


Please ask as many questions as you have.  Lots of people here have lots of knowledge and expterience.


Thank you again for rescuing and caring for this sweet boy.


Barb

--


February 11, 2018 at 3:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mary Goodall
Member
Posts: 6

Jill, thank you for the article about Natural Balance!  Back to research!  Thanks to everyone for all their help.  Barb - I appreciate knowing how much water you use and how long you let it sit, gives me a great starting point.  I'm looking foward to becomming a active member of this forum.  Hopefully I will be able to help other people who are just getting started in the near future!

--
Mary, Chewy's mom
February 11, 2018 at 11:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3679
Mary: here is a list of dog food options: http://www.epi4dogs.com/dogfoodoptions.htm
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





February 12, 2018 at 10:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3679
Hi Mary. Just a follow up link to the original link I posted. This article suggests it is canned foods. However my opinion is if they use it in canned maybe it is in the dry also. I fed both my pups the Natural Balance LID duck and sweet potato biscuits which they love. I switched however as I would rather be safe than sorry. Just my thoughts! http://bgr.com/2018/02/16/dog-food-recall-smucker-co-kibbles-n-bits-gravy-train-ol-roy/amp/
--

   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





February 17, 2018 at 9:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7385
Hello Mary and a very warm welcome from the UK, ,you will find some wonderful,people here, all with a common goal and purpose, EPI, you will be a very welcome active member, and I encourage you to ask anything if you haven't already,have a look at the before and after pictures at the top of the page tabs, my girl went to 39 pounds at her worst, she is now 90 ish, the only other thing to say is to keep a journal and record everything you do so that you an see what works........Jeanx
--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us

 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

February 18, 2018 at 4:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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