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Sandemac
Member
Posts: 121
What are the thoughts on annual vaccinations? Does anyone use titre tests(particularly in the uk). I have not spoken with our vets yet but I imagine they will not be interested in anything other than annual vaccinations.
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Kenzie dob 5/06/2010. Bood tests June 2015 TLI 4, vets started us on Panzym and changed to home cooked diet. 1/2 tsp on all meals, gradually reducing to 1/4 TSP per meal. Responded well until Sep 2015 very bad runs, nothing staying in and vomiting. After finding this website, re quested copies of blood tests - B12 v low 154 and folate high!!! Antibiotics, B12 weekly injections, steroids and one B12 with intrinsic factor per day. Runs stopped, started extra meals of Canagan grain free game kibble in between home cooked mainly Turkey chicken, mince, organ meat in small amounts, fish, sweet potatoes, carrots, green beans, apple, banana, sardines, eggs. All previous trials with kibble had immediate bad effect . Pre Jun 2015 weight 34kg Sep 2015 weight 26.9 kg. Sep 2015, upped enzyme to 1 TSP enzyme on kibble and 1 TSP on home cooked, huge improvement.

 

Jan 2016 stopped home cooked, 3 kibble meals, introducing Yorkshire grain free. Doing fine till early Feb, pooing more and on and off mushy. Changed food to Millies Wolfheart, immediate improvement. Blood tests end Feb 2016 B12 - 810 Folate - 11 TLI - 3.9 March 2016 - 3/4 tsp Panzym per meal (150g) 1/4 tsp Tylan twice a day one B12 with intrinsic factor per day. Bloods May 2017, TLi -3.2 folate - 24 B12 1000 poos not good Upped enzymes to 1 tsp per meal, b12 tabs down to one every 3 days, still 1/4 tsp Tylan twice a day. Within a few days, poos vastly improved and consistent. Aug 17 Anal glands infected, two lots of anti biotics, stopped tylan. Tried slippery elm, no good, back on Tylan 23 Sep, poos better.
May 22, 2018 at 2:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Doc's Mom
Administrator
Posts: 3159

I'm sure the laws etc across the pond are different than here in the U.S.  Vaccinations are mostly a personal decision between you and your vet and taking into consideration the laws and risk factors.  Dr. Jean Dodds (Hemopoet and NutriScan) has done extensive research into vaccinations and has written a lot about the subject.  As far as EPI goes, there should not be an issue but every dog, whether they have EPI or not, will react differently to vaccines.

I personally did the titer test on both of my dogs - according to Dr. Dodds research there is no need to titer test every year but instead every 3 years.  Because Doc gets fistulas after the rabbies vaccine he now has a medical waiver.  My dogs are not high risk for things as they are kept in the house and their yard except for the occasional walk around the neighborhood.  My non-EPI dog got a 3yr rabbies vaccine last year - she is 7yrs old - that will be her last one.

I'm probably not much help but hopefully one of our UK members will chime in.

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MADELON and DOC aka "BUBBY WUBBY"

Nashville, Tennessee

DOB: 4/3/2014 - Diagnosed EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
EPI Test Results: 1st test 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; 
2nd test 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; 3rd test 10/2015   TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4

Weight: 95 (highest 1/2015) - 76 (lowest 5/2015) - goal met 100lb (7/23/15) - 101.8LBS 12/3/15 - CHUNKY MONKEY

History prior to DX:  May/June 2014 (2mos old) - DX coccidia and bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos old) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Diagnosed SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May  2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop.

History since DX: has maintained weight between 95-101lbs since July 2015; extreme yeast and rod infection in ears; yeast infection paws (ongoing); bacterial eye infection; bacterial skin infection on legs; poops LIVE fly larvae; diagnosed with mild, focal superficial pyoderma (bacterial infection) - rare lesions on inner thighs; bacterial and yeast overgrowth lip folds; yeast overgrowth feet and left ear; metacarpal/metatarsal draining tracts/fistulae (infection and/or immune mediated disease; probable underlying allergy (food vs. environmental ); staphylococcus pseudintermedius infection in sores on paws; recurring metatarsal fistula - all issues resolved after NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test and switching foods.

NUTRISCAN Food Sensitivity Test (12/2015): reactive to chicken, turkey, white fish, wheat, white potato (mild), venison, soy (mild), pork (mild), duck (mild), corn - switching food based on test resolved all skin issues.

Serum Allergy Test (5/2016): Too many to mention

CURRENTLY :  6 cups Forza10 Legend Skin - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 2 scoops TotalBiotics 1x day; 600mg vitamin E; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Milk Thistle during heartworm/flea/tick meds

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions are based on my personal experiences, information gleaned from EPI research and information from other EPI owners.  Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet

SO THANKfUL FOR OUR EPI4DOGS GUARDIAN ANGELS!!!!!!!!

YOUR PAWS LEFT PRINTS ON MY HEART (in loving memory of Bugsy aka Boo Boo - Boston Terrier 14yrs - not EPI but medically challenging and totally worth it)


May 22, 2018 at 3:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Patsy
Member
Posts: 993

Marti got poorly after vaccinations and the vet agreed  she couldn't cope . She got kennel cough from the vaccine, and flu. She was eight by then, and I was advised to keep the lepto going every year, but  it was highly likely she was fully immune to the worst of the other illnesses. He was happy to give me a letter for kennels if necessary. At the time, the cost of titre tests was prohibitive.   I know of a lot of people on my cocker spaniel forum who do use them.  I think your vet should be willing to discuss it.  I know that kennels accept them.

Dogs like ours have auto immune problems already, and it's not fair to overload them unnecessarily.  Kenzie is eight, so has had a lot of boosters.   Leptospirosis only lasts a year, and is a must. We had a Westie when I was a schoolgirl, and he caught it,and died,  and all his bedding and toys had to be destroyed because it is transferable to humans.

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Marti  Springer Spaniel, owned by Patsy, Sheffield, England.  She died age 12yrs 6mths  on 27/11/14 from heart failure. Diagnosed after three months, when she was 4 years old,she dropped from 24 kilos to 17 kg.  initially she also had protein losing enteropathy, treated with steroids, ,raw sores on back, obsessive thirst, bursting bowels and biadder, then stable after 2 years.   Developed another autoimmune problem with muscular myositis on head ( muscles wasted away, leaving gaunt hollows.)  She also suffered sometimes from  bottom end thrush, anal  gland infections, and recurrent SIBO treated with 4 weeks of oxytetracycline each time. 

Enzymes: Panzym caused mouth problems, resulting in tooth removal , as I didn't know at the time how caustic it was. I changed to one Lypex  then used VetUk Pancreatic Nutrient tablets, and one Chemeyes because it is half the strength, and I didn't need to use two vet uk ones. Then 3 Chemeyes or  2 pancreatic Nutrient  per meal. 

B12 injection monthly.  Trinfac B12 + intrinsic factor capsules from Chemeyes daily. Metacam for knee joints.  Also used Yumpro Bio pre/probiotics.

Food: picky eater,tinned  Chappie saved her life  till she would eat kibble again.  Eden Holistic, Millies Wolfheart and Lily's Kitchen all good,chicken and grain free.

Vets, one caring learner, who had  nervous breakdown, replaced by obnoxious vet , so I rang round  interviewing them to find someone I trusted and would work with us. Since losing Marti and Bob, I have changed again since the good vet us retired.

RIP Bobby the cocker , from PLN.  Present pet, Tinker the fluffy little grey Greek rescue dog. New addition, Jack ,  a neglected rescue terrier, looks like a fox cub and so happy to to be healthy and loved.

 


May 22, 2018 at 7:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Administrator
Posts: 3686

I dont vaccinate and have discussed this with my vet...i took on a rescue recently so its part of there protcol that the booster had to be done ....i do acknowledge what Patsy says about Lepto but i think you need to take on board eveything that your gal has going on but also check with your insurer i wont insure with anybody that insists i have to have it done...i live in a very rural place and will get Rudi titre tested in 3 years......

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 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  10  DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 was 902 which gave me the confidence to continue without injections.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

She has panzym altough over the years we have had to increase the dose she currently has 1/2 tsp per feed.


May 23, 2018 at 5:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michaela
Member
Posts: 297

We use titers and only give rabies by law every three years.

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My GSD "Nikki" was diagnosed with EPI on 12/08/2010, TLI 1.07.  Receives weekly B12 injections.

Royal Canin Ultamino - 1 cup three times a day, 1 tsp of Viokase w/each meal soaked for 20 minutes.  She weighs 62 lbs.

Tylan:  1/4 tsp twice a day

"Nikki" GSD 11/21/2009 (EPI, IBD, Food Allergies, Atopy)

"Heidi" GSD (02/10/1995 - 02/21/2009) RIP Sweet Girl



May 23, 2018 at 11:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paige's Guardian
Member
Posts: 106

My dogs get Rabies every 3 years by law.  My old Great Dane with ME has a waiver for all vaccines. 

I do titers.  All my dogs are protected except one so, I have vaccinated her the past 2 years.  She is a very hardy dog, no issues except bilateral hip dysplasia.  I have read some new info on titers that is saying that even if the dog tests low that is not an indication of low immunity.  My malabsorption Dane turned 7 this month.  She had not had a vaccine since age 2 years.  So, I did get her vaccinated since she was doing well and really healthy at a good weight.  I will probably never vaccinate her again. 

As for Lepto.... we had an outbreak last summer here in Tucson, AZ.  I did read about it and it turns out that Lepto is a BACTERIA and not a virus which is why you have to booster every 6-8 months or so.   Considering I have 5 dogs, I did not see me taking them in every 6-9 months for a booster.  We stopped going to the dog park for 3 months until cooler weather.  Needless to say, I got a lot of exercise walking those dogs. 

American Vet Med Association and American Vet Hospital Association has some guidelines on vaccines you can google.

Conny

May 27, 2018 at 8:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Judy & Piper
Administrator
Posts: 694

Piper was never vaccinated after her initial vaccinations.  She was also vaccinated for Bordatella and she reacted badly to it.  2 months later, the symptoms of EPI began.  Our Vet felt that PIper was too immune compromised to be vaccinated further.  We live in Canada.

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Piper - Diagnosed 21 Jan 14 at approx 16 months of age TLI 0.3
            DOB - late Sept/early Oct 2012 (found as a stray in a remote Northern Labrador community at approx 3 - 4 months of age)
Using Enzyme Diane 6x 
B12 shots every week at home as well as 2 pills per day
 Eating Pulsar Lamb or Pork
67lbs at time of diagnosis, now 118lbs.
Diagnosed with Hypothyroidism Sept 2014, taking Thyro 0.6mg 2 x daily. 
Piper also has Cushings Disease, allergies and a host of other things but she's happy and we spend our time going for Quality of Quantity because, at the end of the day, that's what's most important
I am not a Vet.  Anything I share or suggest on this site is strictly from my experience as the owner of an EPI dog.  It is recommended that suggested on this forum be discussed with your Vet.

May 28, 2018 at 1:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Administrator
Posts: 3959

We titre Kolby for everything except Rabies which we give every three years by law.  He is 9 and has held his immunity to all of his initial puppy vaccines.


Barb

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May 29, 2018 at 12:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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