EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Hello everyone,

My name is Ann and I'm from Belgium.

My dog Nimue (a belgian shepherd) is not an EPI dog.

But a good friend of mine has a german shepherd with EPI. We found this site, and I helped her a bit with all the good info we found here (her English is not that good)

Her vet is also very helpfull. He ordered for her the tylan to help control the SIBO.

And here is my question :).

How much tylan do you have to give to a grown shepherd of 38-39 klio?

She now gives aan coffee spoon a day, divided over 3 meals. But Pasco (that's the dog) still has loose stools. Is this normal? When should the tylan begin to do his work? I think she is giving it now for about 2 weeks.

We don't know if the dosage is enough, and the vet is also not sure, because it's a medicine that is not common in Belgium.

Pasco eats raw food, with raw pancreas, and he get B12 injections, and also zinc tablets (all under supervision of the vet, offcourse  ;).

If you need to know more, please ask. Sometimes it will take a while before I can answer, because this is not about my own dog.

Thanks in advance!

Hi Ann,

How nice of you to help your friend and it sounds as if her vet is working with her.

I can only tell you what I did. My dog was a little less than that weight when I started the Tylan and I gave 1/2 tsp each meal. I have used the same amount as he gained weight. The suggested time is 4-6 weeks on Tylan. I saw some results in a few days but it took us a long time to get fairly good poop.

Hi Ann,  Was the dog's B12 checked?  It is common to have low B12 with dogs with EPI.   I give Jackie weekly B12 shots and once I started that it seemed to make a difference.  Hope you find your answers.

Hi Ann,

What a good friend you are! 

It sounds like:

(1) Paesco may not be getting enough Tylan (Tylosin)

(2) the Tylan has not has time to work yet

(3) something else is causing the loose stools.

In the U.S the Tylan recommendation that i was given is:

Tylan (100 gram powder / 4000mg per teasspoon) for a German Shepherd, the dose usually is 1/2 teaspoon twice a day. Please share this with the vet to make sure the Tylan concentration is strong enough.

If it still does not work in another week.... must looks at other possibilities.... Pasco may respond better to adifferent antibiotic, like metronidazole or a combination of antibiotics... the enzymes may not be enough or prepared incorrectly, the B12 levels may still be off (is Pasco getting shots weekly? Or the food preparation needs tweaking because it is not allowing Pasco to get the optimal benefit from his meals...

This won't change the loose stools, but it sdoes help if your friend feeds Pasco less food at mealtime, but serve more meals.

Also make sure the pancreas is not heated nor cold.

It took my dog two weeks on the correct enzymes and Tylan before I saw a difference.

Has the dog been on raw food before and handled it well?

.just some thoughts... Keep us updated on what happens!

.

Hi Ann.  I hate to do this to  you, as you don't say how good your english is, but....Here is a site that may be helpful for the vet, also.  I am sending the whole site as it  suggests how much raw pancreas to use, also.  But the part you really want (most of it isn't in plain English, guaranteed), is the part under treatment which will help w/ both the pancreas and the antibiotics.  http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23313.htm&word=tylan%2cdosage%2cfor%2cdogs%2cw%2f%2csibo

I think others on the raw pancreas blend it in a blender as the enzymes are not throughout the whole pancreas.  And the amounts do seem to vary on that, also.

For  my dog, I use 1/2 tsp 2X day.  He is in the 90's (lbs).  When he was in the 70's, it was 1/4 tsp 2X day. (tylan)

Hope this helps and welcome to you and your friend.

Oh, and I am one where he only stabilized on the raw.

Hi Ann,

What a great friend you are! everyone has asked you all the right questions, so I'll just sit back and say welcome. 

Donna, Tara, Zoey and Zeke

Hi Ann and her friend,

I echo others, you are a good friend.  Like Donna I'll just welcome you as everyone has given you good advice.

Look forward to hearing Pasco's progress.

Good luck

Just checking in... How is Pasco today?

Thank you all for your quick answers!

Some of your questions, I can already answer.

Pasco's B12 level is checked (as a result of reading here), and was too low. Since then, he is getting the injections. I don't think he gets them on an weekly basis though, I think (am not sure) it's every 2 weeks. But they help, because he is gaining weight since then.

I will tell my freind that he can have them every week.

She gives the panceas raw, room temperature. She cuts it in very small pieces, mixes it with the food, and let it rest for a few minutes. Is this ok?

Pasco was on a special kibble earlier, in combination with raw pancreas. But he didn't do that well on the kibble. On average, he's doing already better on the raw food :).

Reading your answers, I think it's possible that he isn't getting enough of the tylan.

My friend has given him Flagyl (metronidazole) before, but we (the vet also) preferred the tylan because it's not recommended to give the flagyl for a very long time (it sais so on the leaflet).

Karen, thank you for the link. My english is pretty good (writing is the most difficult part :wink:), so I hope to understand all of it. I'm checking it out now.

Kathy and Ted at 01:41PM on Nov 16, 2009

Hi Ann,

 

How nice of you to help your friend and it sounds as if her vet is working with her.

I can only tell you what I did. My dog was a little less than that weight when I started the Tylan and I gave 1/2 tsp each meal. I have used the same amount as he gained weight. The suggested time is 4-6 weeks on Tylan. I saw some results in a few days but it took us a long time to get fairly good poop.

Hi Kathy, you gave 1/2 tsp each meal. And how many meals did you give?

(Pasco is on 3 meals a day now)

Hi Ann,

I think if your friend can give Pasco  1/2 level teaspoon of Tylan (Tylosin) 2 times a day.... that would be great.

Kathy... if you read this... did Teddy get a total of 1 teaspoon a day? When I fed my Izzy 4 meals a day, she got Tyaln only with teo of those meals.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Teddy eats two meals a day so yes, he had a total of 1 tsp per day of Tylan.

Pasco is getting 1 tea spoon a day of Tylan.

We think/ hope that's where the problem is; he was getting only 1/2 tea spoon a day.

I 'll keep you updated :).

Hi Ann,

Let us know how it goes with the upped Tylan dose.  I "think" you said your friend chops up the pancreas??? If so, she might want to try putting it through a food processor.  I tried it once and I remember those that had used it prepared it this way...Maybe someone who feeds it might chime in here?  Anyway, I don't think it will hurt and it might help.

Please let us know how it goes.

Donna

Yes that's right.

She is going to blend it now, to see if that makes a difference.

We have another question about that :).

Can she blend the pancreas before she freezes it? Or will that have a bad effect on the working of the enzymes?

It would be easier to blend it all, portion it and freeze it. But I have a feeling that this is not so good for the enzymes?

Hi Ann.  Here is a link for Cheetah, an epi dog who uses pancreas.  Maybe this will help you some more?  It looks like they freeze it and then before mixing, blend it.  http://ellsbury.com/cheetahfaqs.htm Good luck and let us know how  things go.

Oh, in case nobody's read Cheetah's story, here is the home page.  I think it's great!  http://ellsbury.com/cheetah.htm

Good news!

Pasco's stools are like they should be :D! Looks like the tylan is doing his job now.

It appears that he has gained soms weight too. The vet will weigh him tomorrow, when he gets his B12 injection. Then we will know for sure.

We hope he stays on the right track!

That's great news Ann - glad to hear that things are improving

Let us know tomorrow on the weight

Great news Ann!!!  Please let us know how Pasco make out tomorrow...