EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

I have a 4 year old female lab that is currently undergoing a battery of tests to determine what her GI issues are.  She has had GI concerns on and off for 2 years, but they seem to dissipate once she was started on a raw diet.  But, they have returned and with a vengence.

I have taken her off of the raw diet and she has been placed on a prescription diet (Purina EN) and probiotics until her tummy settles.  I started her a week ago on the forementioned food.  Her stools continue to look like cow patties and she has to be let outside frequently. 

I have been feeding her very small meals throughout the course of the day in hopes she will have less of a strain put on her.

My question:  while I am waiting for her test results to come back (3-5 days) what measures can I take that may help with her runny stools?

I appreciate in advance the forums help.

Thanks,

Melissa and Boogie

Hi Melissa and welcome, although I'm sorry you may need to be here...  

When you say battery of tests, was the cTLI test one of them?  This is the only test that can lead to a difinitive EPI dx. For the most part, a CBC and a full chem panel will look completely normal.  If your vet suspects EPI, you could ask him/her to start her on some enzyme replacements, such as Viokase or Pancrazyme.  This will not hurt your pup and if the dx does come posiitive for EPI, you'll be one step ahead of the game.

Good Morning - yes, the cTLI test was sent off yesterday to Texas A&M.  I will call my vet and see what he can do for her.  Thanks so much for the quick response. 

Melissa

Hi Melissa,

Welcome to you and Boogie. Let us know when you find out the results from TAMU.

Hi Melissa~

 As Donna said, sorry you have to be here but welcome!

That is great that one of the tests being done is a cTLI test (this is the best test to determine of the dog has EPI) and that your vet sent it to TAMU

1. .... you might want to call the vet and ask him if one of the other tests he requested is a B12 deficiency test (and folate).. This is done via fasting and blood test . TAM|U is the best place in the country to get the B12 deficiency test done.... since the blood was already drawn, ask the vet if he requested this test .... if not, ask him if he can call TAMU and alert them about the blood he sent and if there is enough blood, can they please also run the B12 deficiency (and folate) test. 

With EPI, 50-70% of the time secondary conditions; B12 deficiency and SIBO occur...... it is better to address these sooner rather than later.

2. Donna gave great advice... while on the phone with your vet, ask him if he wouldn't mind starting Boogie on enzymes now... even before the test results come in.  That is what my vet did.... her perscribed Pancrezyme prior to actually receiving the test results. It won't hurt, and if anything it will only help at this juncture ...even if it is not EPI.

3. Your vet already has you on appropriate food. Purina EN works great for some dogs, and then other dogs, not so much...If it works, GREA|T! I.. if it doesn't seem to work, then let us know ASAP and we can share with you other things to try.

With EPI the  most important things are:

1. proper diagnosis, REPLACEMENT ENZYMES on all food.

2. proper diet, usually grain-free, raw, prescription.... different dogs respond best to different foods

3. if there is a B12 deficiency, treating low-normal or low B12 with B12 injections.

4. if there is SIBO, treating ASA|P with the right antibiotics for the right duration (usually Tylan for 30 days... less does not work well)

One other thing... you'll probably pass out when you learn how much the enzymes cost.... don't worry....many of us save a ton of the cost by buying it from a bulk source. http://www.enzymediane.com/

I have a 45lb Spanish Water Dog with EPI.... when i started, it was goign to cost me $1200 a year just for enzymes.... purchasing from  EnzymeDiane, the cost dropped to $400 a year.... i further reduced my cost in half ... it now only costs me $200 a year, because my dog is stable and she is one of those EPI dogs whose does of enzymes were able to be reduced... after stablization.

There is lots more to help you with, but this is a good start.

Please keep us updated, give details and we can help you with lots of little tricks on how to manage EPI.

Hi again Melissa,

When you ask your vet, make sure you ask for the powder rather than the pills.  Powder works much better than pills.  Also, you will need to let it soak in the food for at least 20 minutes before serving so that the enzymes have a chance to begin pre-digesting the food.  Also, if Boogie does end up being dx'd with EPI, there is a generic source of these enzymes. http://www.enzymediane.com/  They are pretty pricey from the vet and the Pancreatin that Diane sells is comparable to the pricey prescriptions and about 1/2 the cost!!

i wish this FORUM had spell check...............please excuse all my typos............

Hi Melissa and Boogie ~

Would just like to send you a warm welcome to this epi family forum. You have great advice to help you and Boogie while waiting for the test results. I hope they bring you a difinitive diagnosis as it is the not knowing that causes SO much worry and anxiety.  Please keep us updated.

Olesia ~ It's your site so make as many typos as you like!  WE DO!!!!

Warmest best wishes,

Julie & Angel

Hi Melissa and lovely Boogie,

Welcome to you both.

You have been given sound advice, so at the point I will leave you in very very capable hands.  Let us know how the tests go and if it is EPI there is a wealth of advice and support here for you.

Hey Debra.......don't shy away now..... you have much wonderful knowledge and experience to share ... and ahem... a most .unqiue way of delivering information... we always love hearing from you!

Wow.  You guys are awesome.  Thank you all for the warm welcome and information.

My vet, who is a great guy and a wonderful diagnostician put together a plan that called for B12, folate, the cLTI, a cetrifugal stool study?? (probably not the correct terminology; however, it is supposed to check for all sorts of nasty things that a regular fecal would not find), a standard blood panel looking particularly at the liver levels and protein issues, and a test for giardia.  As my vet is an Aggie he was aware of TAMU's  gastro group and was on top of things before I even arrived at his office.  

As for the Purina EN, I am not sure if it is working or not.  I have had her on it for a little over a week but her stools still look like cow pattys.  I would like to know of alternative foods I might give her.  One I was looking at was Instinct.  They have a raw, kibble, and canned that are all grain free.  I am not sure, however of the fiber and fat levels.  I will check on that.

As soon as I get test results, I will pass the information on.  In the meantime, I am waiting on my vet to call me back about starting Boogie on enzymes and looking for dietary suggestions from the group.

One last bit of info - Boogie is a Lab and as a Lab will eat ANYTHING! 

I feel very secure knowing this group is out there - though anxious about my pup's dx., if it is indeed EPI, I feel confident that with your support and the support of my vet, we can bring Boogie back to health.

Thanks so much.

Melissa and Boogie

Thanks Olesia for your kind words.

Melissa, we will certainly do all we can to help you and Boogie Boy.

Perhaps before changing food, you may want to start the enzymes first....as it would appear at the moment he may need them, the cowpatties may not improve until then.

Sounds as though you have a fabbie vet,

Hey Melissa, your vet sounds like a real keeper!!!!  My guess is that there is not a large chapter in the vet school med books on this condition, therefore, many vets simply don't know enough about it.

As far as food goes, if Boogie does have EPI, there isn't a food in the world that you can give him that will make his stools less sloppy, unless he has digestive enzymes to help him digest the food.  I would be intrested to see how it goes if your vet gives you some digestive enzymes to try...

Hi Melissa..... i second what Debra said..... try the enzymes first....

when you get the enzymes, let us know what brand you are using, how you are preparing it..... give us details and we'll walk you through everything that we possibly can.

Hi Melissa.  Not much for me to add here, as everyone else has given you excellent advice, so I will simply add my "welcome" to you and Boogie.

Hi Melissa.  Welcome.  While on the raw, was it a bit better than on the EN?  I'm asking as the raw has some natural digestive enzymes in it already and that may help a bit more than none if your vet won't let you start the enzymes.   It is just a thought.

HI ALL EPI DOG OWNERS,

I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE LIVES IN BOULDER, COLORADO?  MY DOG SITTER WHO I THOUGHT WAS MY FRIEND JUST BROKE HIS PROMISE TO TAKE CARE OF MY ''SWEET SUGAR'' 12-21 THRU 12-27

I STILL HAVE A COUPLE OPTIONS BUT WAS CURIOUS IF ANYONE LIVES NEAR ME WHO WILL BE AROUND THE HOUSE ON THOSE DATES?  I'M POSITIVE SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY I WILL BE ABLE TO WORK IT OUT.  I EVEN PAY $$$$$  :-} FOR SOMEONE TO GIVE LOVE TO MY SUGAR BABY:-}

THANKS,

BETTY & SUGAR (MARCH CENTERFOLD SUNRISE PIC)

Ahh Betty... I am so sorry to hear that you lost your dog sitter for the holiday. That stinks!

I don't think anyone else here lives near you, but I am sure if anyone does they will chime in. Is ther no way you can take Sugar with you? Again... I amso sorry for the tough spot you are in...............

Total bummer Betty, I love to hang in Colorado, unfortunately we live in Texas.  My parents are retired and Mollie Bijou and I have traveled on many occasions with them.  Maybe I should sign them up to be traveling EPI sitters, lol.

Hi Happy Papi's mom...

Ohhhhhhhh... i like that "Traveling EPI sitters".... we could have a lot of fun with that..................