EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

My Keira is a 4 yr old German Shepherd who recently tested positive for EPI. Her B12 levels are also very low.  She's been losing weight rapidly and had all the classic symptoms.  She is very large framed for a female and so far has gone from a little over 100 lbs down to 75lbs as of yesterday.  We started B12 shots yesterday and began adding enzymes (Viokase V) to her food.

The enzymes are the problem.  Before she became symptomatic, she was always a very picky eater.  With the enzymes added she's leaving about 90% of her food.  I've gone to a grain free kibble (Orejen) and added some grain free canned food to try and disguise the taste of the enzymes.  I tried adding tripe which smells awful but she's always loved.  Tonight she left her entire dinner.

I'm in a panic as to what to do,  She can't afford to lose any more weight.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do to cover up the taste of the enzymes or make them more palatable?  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Pat

Hi Pat & Keira,

Just wanted to say a very warm welcome to our group.  I'm so sorry to hear that Keira has EPI but I'm sure you will get lots of help & support here.  As far as the enzymes go & Keira not wanting to eat her food,  I can't really help you there as we use capsules (the only enzymes available to us in Australia).  Most here use powder though & they will have a lot of suggestions for you.   One that I can think of & we use regularly with my girl is sardines.  They are very stinky but dogs usually love them.  Perhaps worth a try. 

The B12 shots that you've just started will kick in very quickly & low B12 is often a reason why these dogs wont eat.  

Things will improve & I'm sure you'll have lots more people popping in here to help. 

Lynn & girls. 

Hi Pat,

Welcome to the group.  Coming to the group is not always a good thing, but we can give you good advice since all of us have gone down the path you will travel.  Where do you live????  If in the U.S., as a last resort ask your vet for a prescription for a Canadian Pharmacy that sells Creon 10 for the cheapest price.  If you look hard enough you can find it for about $0.44 a pill.  Lynn who just welcomed you to the group, has been using it for about 3 years in Australia with great success.  I am in the process of getting a prescription from my vet to test it for when we are camping.  I also have a big girl GSD, she just weighted in at 101 lbs and has been ordered by the vet to lose at least 8 lbs.  There is two ways to use Creon 10.  One way is to open the capsule and sprinkle the litle beads onto the food, but the food must be eaten immediately.  The other way is get it down the throat just before eating.  This may help you until the weight comes back on then give you time to work with the powder again.

Frank

Hi Pat.

My Razzy is a fussy madam and I find that I have to balance the enzymes to the LEAST I can get away with... even down to one eighth of a capsule (or teaspoon with powder) makes the difference between her eating or walking away. Also I soak the kibble REALLY well before adding the enzymes and mash the kibble until light and fluffy.. THEN add enzymes and mix well... set the timer at 45 mins and put a bit of canned food in just before feeding.

Its a ritual that I have to follow or Miss FussyBoots will sniff and walk away.

I have also used Lypex (the same as Creon 10 but UK name for it) they work very well but I find they are better with the raw meals I give my dog... every dog is DIFFERENT.. so for Razzy's preference its porcine pre-digest capsules (or powder) for kibble and Lypex for raw. Not that we go the extra mile for these dogs and spoil them to death

Keep us updated and we will help as much as we can.

Val

welcome you will get lots of help from the great people here

Hi Pat and welcome, although sorry you need to be here...

Yeah, I have one of those "Just say no to food dogs" and yes, it's very stressful when you are trying to put weight back on them and they simply will not eat...Many of us here have had to get creative with the enzymes... I used to make capsules and pill her them and another member here with a picky eater actually puts hers in meat baby food that her dog has to eat before she gets her meal.

Thankfully, Tara learned to eat food with enzymes and all is good now, but it wasn't easy in the beginning...Sardines, Feta cheese, even cheap dog food (Tara liked "Mighty Dog") as a topper has worked on some, but not all occasions. I've even used a modified NILF (nothing in life is free) program with my girl in that if she didn't eat her food, we didn't play ball or frisbee - her favorite thing in the world.

Please keep us informed on Keira's progress and what works, doest work!

Hi Pat~

Welcome, but also, I am so sorry you have to be here. EPI is very scary ...sometimes we think we are going to lose the dog any day... but have heart....once you find the right balance of enzymes, diet and addressing SIBO and B12 if necessary.... things will start to turn around and we will help you as bvest we can to get there!

Since you already have the Viokase powder on hand,  personally i would give it a few more days....continue to try the powdered Viokase and use tricks to camaflouge it as others have suggested.. but also give consideration to the CREON 10 capsules that Frank mentioned... just in case.....

One of the things when i first started with the pancreatic replacement powder is that i bought fresh chicken liver from the store. pureed the raw livers in a blender.... while the pureed liver was at room temperature, i mixed in my powdered enzymes, mixed well, poured over the grain-free dry kibble...let sit for 20 minutes (to avoid mouth sores and allow the enzymes to better cover more food particles), mixing occasionally. My Izzy lapped it up.. might be worth a try.

My ratios for this (Izzy at the time was 27-28 lbs (she now weighs 46lbs) was:

1/4 pureed fresh chicken liver

1 level teaspoon of powdered enzymes

1 cup of grain-free kibble

There are many other tricks and I am sure others will chime in... some even use a table spoon of stinky cat food, sardines, tomato sauce BBQ sauce, parmesan cheese... the list is endless

Hope this helps a little.

Hi ,welcome .Sorry i dont know these enzymes , we in UK ,Best suggestion i can think of is ; play her favourite game in the world /or training ,using the tablets as treats ,disguised if needed in something she likes -blended chicken or cheese ?My dog eat anti- biotics cause she thought they were special treats not food {when  mixed in with her dinner she would leave them].

I ordered the Creon Capsules from Canada Pharmacy over the counter no script required. I think they only charge like $5.00 for shipping from Canada to US so very reasonable. Worked good with my Susie who started to avoid eating with the powder, mostly because of mouth sores. But some of that was aleviated when I let it sit long enough but I think she associated the smell of the powder with hurting her mouth...

Hi Pat,

I too have recently become the owner of an EPI GSD.  He was diagnosed in Dec 09 at 15 months old.  He was 60 lbs and loosing at his worst and now he is 72 lbs after 2 months of being on the diet below.  We feed RAW pancreas and RAW Tripe and RAW Xcaliber from www.greentripe.com.   Phone 831-635-0724

I live in Califonia and have made the drive 2 hours south to pick it up but it is too time consuming for me.  I now order it via phone and it is delivered the next day.

Here is our MORNING regimine: 

2 Cups Taste of the Wild Kibble, (I pre-grind this kibble in the blender to a powder form when I bring it home from the store this way I just have to scoop the powdered kibble and add to his feeding bowl), room temp water added, to a consistency of runny paste

8 Oz of Green Tripe

6 Oz of RAW Pancreas I puree in food processor at the time I serve him

4 Oz of Green Tripes Xcaliber (this product has more fat, organ meat and bone in it to help put on weight)

1 OTC Multi Vitamin I grind up into a powder

1 OTC Gluc/Chon tablet I grind up into a powder

Alternate days with 1 tsp Coconut Oil (from Vitamin Shoppe) and 3 Pumps Salmon Oil (from Pet Smart)

1/8 tsp Tylan Antibiotic to control SIBO

NOTE:  All product should be at room temperature.  This means I have to defrost in frig overnight then let come to room temperature before I a serve him.  I mix all the room temperature product together and let sit 20 minutes before he gets it.   

Here is our EVENING regimine:

2 Cups Taste of the Wild Kibble, (I pre-grind this kibble in the blender to a powder form when I bring it home from the store this way I just have to scoop the powdered kibble and add to his feeding bowl), room temp water added, to a consistency of runny paste

8 Oz of Green Tripe

6 Oz of RAW Pancreas I puree in food processor at the time I serve him

4 Oz of Green Tripes Xcaliber (this product has more fat, organ meat and bone in it to help put on weight)

He gets every Saturday...B12 shots 0.3 ml 1x per week (given here at home)

I also add about a cup of baked or boiled whole chicken, deboned and shredded.   I buy them at Food Maxx, 2 chickens for about $8.00.  I've only done this twice but he loves it! 

I have recently stopped the TYLAN and B12 shots as of a two weeks ago.  I will take him to weigh him on Monday to see if he is sustaining weight or loosing.  His poop still seems mostly normal with just a few that seem a bit softer and we are monitoring it closely. 

The people are really nice at Green Tripe and have been very helpful.  This raw diet is very good for our dogs and the Green Tripe also has digestive enzymes in it too, thus very helpful along with the pancreas to help your dog absorb necessary nutrients and gain weight.  My phone number is 925-516-8222 if you would like to call me.  I have had great success so far but it is only due to the wonderful, loving, helping people I have met and spoken with on this website and the beautiful people at Green Tripe and some of their customers also dealing with EPI.

I too, have tried the Pancreatin 6 X USP Powder for a week with Max and he ate that too, so therefore Max not so picky.  However, I did incubate that for 30 minutes to make sure he wouldn't get mouth sores.

Hang in there kid and call me if you need me.

Kim