EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Wow, I am so excited. She finally has a couple good poops through the night and again this morning. I was so excited, I took a pic...is that weird? Any way she acts like she is straining, but again, she has NEVER had to push poop out before. Sometimes it would just come out on it's own. We have awoke to many beds with full piles in them and she doesn't even realize it.

I hope this continues, I started feeding her more meals and "crunching" up her kibble a litte, soaking for 30 minutes and cut her out of any other food at all during the day. Now a question, if I put her kibble in the frig to preserve it, how long does it have to stay out before I feed it to her?

Congratulations!  It is cause for joy after weeks and months of the other.  Keep up the good work.

You can soak the bowl w/ food in a sink of hot water for a bit or leave on the counter 1/2 hour or so.  Did you incubate it before you put in the fridge?  If so, if she likes it cold, you can just feed from the fridge if she can tolerate it.  Some can, some need to bring it to room temp a bit first.

Cute dogs, too.

Good luck and keep it up!

Leslie ~ When i opened this thread... i burst out lauging   ... you are now a bona fide member of the EPI FORUM!!!! You took poop pictures!       hehehehehehe!

And congratulations.... isn't it just wonderful to see normal poop.

Karen gave you great suggestions on the food... in short, my rule of thumb is to just get it to room temperature without nuking or cooking it. (no excessive heat... but rather warm it up slowly)

I think I jinxed my self, After breakfast she had a coupld soft, not runny, soft yellower stools. She was so good, had a total of 3 good poops since last night....urghhhhhh. Anyway we will see what this afternoon brings.

I was also searching locally for DVP Bison and Sweet Potato, it has the best fat and fiber count for a non-grain out there. Right now it is too 'new" and no one has gotten it in yet. I hope Bella likes it when I do get it. Abby is on the venison and sweetpotato due to allergies and Bella just doesn't seem to like it.

I had the same reaction as Olesia...Somehow I knew there was going to be a good poop photo in this thread!!!  Congratulations and don't worry about a few bad ones...It does take some time!  Yup, you've graduated to the rank of Poopologist - those of us who are not too proud to snap poop pictures and show off our dog's poop!!!

I also had a giggle when I saw Bella's poop photo.   I agree with Donna, Leslie.  You have definately graduated & very quickly too.  You jumped right in there, took pics. & posted them.  A lot of us pussy-footed around for months, wondering if we should, or shouldn't.  Very well done to you, & Bella's poop looks great.     A massive big

 coming your way.

Lynn & girls.

YEAH! Happy Poop Dance... and welcome to the poop pics party.

Don't worry too much about a few softer poops it takes time and if straining has occured the dog may hold it back to spare the discomfort... making the next poop soft.

But if straining is a problem its best to just tweak maybe one eighth of a spoonful less enzyme to soften just a bit to make it normal. My vet always says the poop should not be hard but 'like putty' firm but soft enough to poke a dent in it. He is a great one for spot on descriptions.

Val

She is back to darker, firmer poops again. I didn't do anything different than the day before. I don't think they are too hard, they seem normal to me. But it seems like she will get yellower and softer through out the day and then at night and early am they are back to the normal kind.

She has gained weight. I can tell she is heavier, her bulldog pudginess is coming back and full of energy. I am sure my older dogs wished I didn't give her the enzymes. I know She should be on a grain free kibble, but for now I am keeping on this. It is a mixture of Merrick Grammy Pot Pie Kibble and DVP Venison and Sweet Potato. Half crushed up with enzymes incubated for 30 mintues. It gets real pasty, she has trouble with it at times, but I am sure eventually she will learn to drink water during her eatting to help with that. I am calling the vet today to get a fax of her Texas panel and question the B12 issue.

wow...congratulations!  If you can already tell just by looking at her that she's gaining weight, I wonder how much she's actually gained?  It sounds as if everything is coming together wonderfully.  I'm not sure why her poop is changing color throughout the day but wouldn't change anything until you see the results of the panel.  Remember, only one change at a time.  Good job!!!

Welcome to the crazy world of poop photography!  It becomes bizzarly comfortable and second nature after a wee while.  We printed all Gemmas off to start with and stuck them in a note book which we took to the vet each week so we could visibly measure the difference.  It really helped because otherwise you dont really remember what it was like on a specific day. 

heheheh  ... a notebook full of puppy poop pictures... now that made me smile

Leslie, if Bella is having imprvement, don't worry about "grain-free food" for now....stick to what you are doing for a little while longer. As Linda said, one change at a time..... she may be battling SIBO and it is taking a while to get out of her system, or it may be grain... but give her some more time and record the results...with poop pics ... Actually by the weekend if Bella is still dong a combination of poop.... get a pic of the yellowish poop... post... and us poop affectionado's (what sick, sick, people we are!) will check it out and see if we can see anything telling........

Congrats Leslie!!!!!!!1    Looks like you and Bella are on your way to a healthy and happy life.  I agree with everyone else here.  Sometimes Suzie's poops are very yellow and small and a bit too mushy.  However, the next one will be just fine.  I find that when she goes too long in between meals (she is free fed, so sometimes she eats less than others) she will have poops that arent ideal.  Then, after a larger meal, they are back to normal once again.

Oh, and I agree that  you should NOT change a thing for now.  Once stable, you just might not ever have to change foods either.  Suzie does not eat grain free.  I know that most do need grain free, but when I found what worked for Suzie, I just wouldnt take the chance on changing anything.  She has been fine for years not, so you just never can tell.  I suggest you give it some time.

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!   And, Bella is the cutiest thing.  What an expressive face.  I love her.

I know that mouth sores can happen with under 20 mins of incubation, but what if you incubate for over 30 mins?

Last night and again this morning, Bella would salivate while eatting and it was bloody. She would also take it real slow and act as if she was having a hard time eating. I tried to look, but could not see mouth sores. Her tongue was very red and her lip looked a little puffy. I thought maybe sores in her throat? Also being a bullie, she tends to "store" food in her jowls, sitting there for a long time, could that cause sores?

Today I washed her face and swiped the inside of her jowls with water after eatting. Her lip seemed to be oozing a little, so I put vasoline on it. She may have just caught her tongue or lip while playing last night. She plays tug-o-war hard with us and the other dogs.

I just wanted to throw out there the sore question to see if anyone else had the problem.

Hi Leslie

 Also being a bullie, she tends to"store" food in her jowls, sitting there for a long time, could thatcause sores?

30 minutes should take care if spreading the enzymes around enuogh in the food and for some activation to happen so that it shouldn't cuase mouth sores... however, since Bullies tend to store food in their jowls as you stated above... this could be the cause.....or it could just be as you also stated, she was playing with the other dogs and got hurt.

If it is the enzymes because of storing food....(and hopefully others will chime in with their thoughts / suggestions)

1. The first way i would try to address the problem is to take a squirt bottle of warm water and try to rinse her mouth out after she eats so that no food is stored.

2. The second option is to let the enzymes sit  maybe 10 minutes lnoger on the food...

Others will need to chime in on this,,,, (my Izzy never had mouth sores) but i think when the enzymes are not diluted to where they develop sores,  i don't recall people saying anything about anything being puffy....

But do mention a little blood sometimes, sometimes difficulty in eating, just like you described, and some dogs don't want to eat i suspect because it hurts....

The last thing that you can do ( but i do not advise it just yet with Bella) is to slightly reduce the enzymes by a pinch to alleviate mouth sores...... Honestly, i would not try this just yet.... especially since you do not know if Bella has sores, etc from playing or from teh enzymes...

YIPPIE ON THE GOOD POOP!!!   

Try a little more water as well as a bit longer pre-digestion. I even add a little water to minced raw to allow the enzymes to mix well in the food.

If that doesn't do then even a little pinch less enzymes  like Olesia suggested wouldn't do much harm... you can always go back.

For the time being you may find an unwillingness to eat if its sore (even from another cause)... so give a few days for the soreness to heal and just add that bit extra water and longer pre-digest just incase... it won't do any harm..

Thanks for your suggestions. My son said at lunch she would hardly eat. He said if looked like it hurt and her lower jaw was shivering. He didn't notice any bloody saliva. I feel so bad for her.

I am mixing very well, even fixing during incubation time and before putting her dish down. I am incubating for at least 30 mins and wetting the food before adding the enzymes.

I will try all suggestions as far as lowering the amount of enzyme etc....

I thank you and so does Bella

Hi Leslie,

I agree with everyone else here...Let it sit a bit longer and it's a good idea to rinse out their mouths...I used to only intubate for 20 minutes and that worked out fine for a few years, then all of a sudden she got some minor mouth burns...We increased the time to 30 minutes and all was well!  This time of year here in NE, I just throw her ball into the snow and her digging for it rinses her mouth pretty well...Others have had success training their dogs to drink on command... Whatever works for you, but I don't think you'll hurt the enzymes letting them sit too long.

Hi again Leslie,         Suzie has never had mouth sores, so have no advice with them.  I have heard tho that "delution is the solution".   Meaning add more water to the food mix.

I do have experience in letting the food sit.  I mix Suzies food and let it sit until she eats it.  Today for instance, she has not eaten at all (which is not unusual for her).  I made her food this morning, and it is now 3:20 PM here.  Her food is still good, and when she gets up from her nap, I am sure she will eat it.  I have done this many, many times, and the food never goes bad, or does her any harm.

I suggest you add more water, and let it sit for even an hour or so.  Cant hurt.

I actually think I figured out the problem. Believe it or not, I am letting it sit too long.

Today when I came home, her lunch was still sitting there. I grabbed a spoon and she would take it from the spoon. However, since she is a Bulldog, her palate is very flat and wide. The food keep sticking to the roof of her mouth and she would use her tongue to try and get it off, she never was able to get it all herself. I kept having to take my finger and pull it out. Finally it hit me....her bleeding and sores are from her tongue always rubbing up against the food and upper teeth to get the food out.

So since she wouldn't eat it. I made more, this time only incubated it for twenty minutes, put is in a rounded edge glass bowl (the squared edge would allow the food to pack) and she ate is all up, no troubles, no sticking....she loved it, couldn't get enough of it. Never onced stopped like before to try and "choke" it down.

I am going to try this a little and see if it works. My older Bullie would have trouble with kibble at times too, their palates are so broad and flat, food goes to the back differently and get stuck often.