EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Ellie has had a rough going so far. We got her from the breeder and she had Giardia....yea great breeder, we did our research and thought we got a good one but yea....

So she goes on Drontal 2 times and the vet finally says its gone, but she still has diarrhea...so then the vet says well with the Giardia it let Clostridium take over....so she was on Antibiotics for a week...

The diarrhea is still a problem throughout of of this...and today it was back to watery...back to the vet on Monday.

She had some firm poop a few days between the Giardia meds and the Bacteria Meds, but it was mucousy....

The vet brought up the possibility of EPI...so today we are looking over the symptoms....

Noticeable weight-loss (growing fine...at 25 pounds now)

Increase in appetite (doesn't seem to be)

Loud, rumbling sounds in the abdomen (I don't hear it)

Increased gas or flatulence (One day it was bad, haven't noticed much)

Diarrhea (All the time)

Grey-colored, very smelly, oily-looking stools, due to the high amount of fats in the waste. (Have seen maybe 3-4 of these between the meds)

Dry, flaky skin (doesn't look it, but she has dander and itches a good amount at night)

Dry-looking coat (Looks shiny)

Weak, lethargic behavior (Only at night after a lot of puppy play)

So she has some of the symptoms and we are afraid it is the case...Just like to get some other opinions and maybe some others experiences. Weknow GSDs are 70% of the cases of EPI...we are just crossing ourfingers it is not.

Hi:

Welcome to the forum, I'm glad you've found us.  I'm sorry for what you're going thorugh...I know it's very difficult with a small puppy.  Akira (also gsd) showed signs of EPI when I brought her home at 8 weeks of age.  However, the runny stools wouldn't be all of the time, just on and off again.  Her stools were never what I'd call good...but still weren't runny.  They were larger in volume, more often and not always a great color.  She also didn't show any of the other symptoms at first so I started trying different foods thinking that she was either allergic to a food, or perhaps one of the proteins.  She wasn't diagnosed until around a year of age.

How old is Ellie?  I think I'd consider having her tested for EPI and also check to see if she has SIBO.  The vet is probably trying to put her through as little as possible, and the tests aren't cheap but you'd then know or be able to rule out what is or isn't going on.  You may also at some point, want to check her B12 levels (less expensive if done at the same time that the fasting TLI test is done).  Please feel free to share any information from the site with your vet.

Please keep us posted...and I'd sure love to see some pictures of your girl...hint, hint    

Hi, (you didn't sign your name)

When we got Tara as an 8 week old puppy, she had Giardia also...My understanding in that it's not that uncommon and given the fact that even if you kept the whelping box/kennel area as clean as you can, sh*t happens and when you are dealing with many puppies who play in it as well as their food...Well...just mulitiply it!  I'm not sticking up for any breeder, but I do know it happens sometimes to the best of them.

How old is Ellie? I would say as long as she's not loosing weight and maintaining a good average puppy weight for age/development, just keep watching her and her stools. If you want, you can do a cTLI test, but to be honest, I'd wait to see if the antibiotics kick in for the Giardia. Many, but not all EPI dogs turn into counter surfers and food stealers and mine was not one of them. Her only symptom was loose stools and rapid weight loss. 

Please tell us more about Ellie.

Hey! Thanks for the quick replies...we are in the middle of a snow storm and I was getting out of work early so i posted quick. My name is Grant and living in Denver, CO with my GF Lora, our tabby Olive and our new GSD puppy Ellie. 

Ellie will be 13 weeks on Saturday....

Basically she had diarrhea since we got her at 8 weeks. The vet said the Giardia is gone she had 2 separate weeks on the wormer Drontal to get rid of it...but then she got a bacteria infection so she was on antibiotics up into last tuesday...Her poop has been all over the place, most of the time it is soft a pudding like of a brownish orange color, I wouldn't say yellow nor clay colored...

The vet just brought up the possibility of EPI since she is a GSD and we can't her her with a solid stool. So we are just researching it today and see that she has some symptoms....everything I wrote in red above are what we have seen compared to the symptoms....

The good news is that she is putting on weight...she was 18 pounds last week then the way in on tuesday she was 25 pounds. 

Were hoping its just that her stomach has been going through so much that it is uneasy right now. 

Here are some pics...first ones at about 6 weeks when we were picking her out and the rest prob around 10 weeks. 

Hi Grant, Lora and furry family!

Ellie sure is a doll!!!!  I would agree with your vet that you may in fact be dealing with EPI, but again, I'd wait and see what happens in the next few weeks as her poor tummy has been pretty upset.   BTW, as I've been owned by a GSD my entire life, I can also tell you their GI/immune systems are a challenge for sure!

The owner of this site has a Spanish Water Dog and maybe only 1/3 of us here have a GSD....This condition affects all breeds and sadly, if your breed is not a GSD or a RCC, many vets dismiss the possibility of EPI. 

Please keep us updated and if you do decide to do a cTLI (the only accurate blood test) please make sure your vet sends it out to Texas A&M as they are the authorities on this test.

Please keep us updated!!!

What a sweetie!!!  I have only been part  of this  forum since the end of January. My girl Anja was diagnosed with epi on jan.26. This forum is invaluable and supportive. Good Luck!!!!

Hi guys.  What a doll!  She is so adorable.  I love puppies.

My guy had every kind of worm, etc they can get, over and over again.  Nobody could figure it out.  Coccidia, giardia, whip worm, round worm, you name it.  Never had a good poop til about 6 months old, then he actually had  a normal one and he ran away and then back to look at it, never had one come out like that and guess it scared him.  I actually thought it funny.  But dealing w/ all the soft, runny poop wasn't funny.  He grew normal but stopped at 76 lbs.  As he got older the skinnier he looked, still maintained around that weight though. He did ok for awhile,poop wise,  mostly normal for about a year, not real good, not real bad, some worse than others. Lots of bland diets.  But we weren't having it checked for worms constantly like in the beginning.  Then it started all over again, more worms, etc, then the weight loss, then here we are.  Finally, at 2.5 years, we had an answer.  I think a lot of GSD's as pups do have tummy problems, and as was mentioned, seeings she is so young, I think I'd hold off a bit.  Maybe ask your vet what he thinks about giving her acidophilus and maybe a bit of prozyme (plant based enzyme) for a bit and see what happens.  The acidophilus I started giving at a young age as someone recommended it to me seeings how we were always worming, etc.  Try to keep the healthy bacteria going.

Good luck to you guys.  GLad to see it didn't take you long to figure out how to upload the photos.  We love pics here.  And she is so cute.

Thanks guys! Yea we have actually been giving her pet dophilus since she had the giardia....

Any suggestions on the probiotics? Not sure if this was a good one just found it at whole foods, so who knows if it is stable enough to get through all that stomach acid and be beneficial...

Here is one of our favorite pics

Oh my...you have a beautiful family.  Ellie is a very cute girl and is showing every sign of growing into a very pretty adult.  I love puppies...my heart just melted when I looked at these pictures.  Keep 'em coming :D! 

Ohhh, I love snow pictures!! She is just too cute!!

I use human grade probiotic acidophilus in all my dogs meals...Heck, I use them myself!

Here is a picture of my Tara when she was first dx'd, then one after:

So cute donna! 

Ellie is going back to the vet on Monday...were going to go to the other one at the office this time (she takes care of the Commerce City K9 cops) Maybe she'll shed some more light...Ellie also got her 2nd round of shots last wednesday...her immune system has just been super stressed in her short life...

At this point we're just gonna roll with it and see if she can start digesting some food...we're currently feeding her Breeders Choice health food for dogs (what the breeder weaned her onto) we just found out this food was discontinued, open to suggestions about her change...we're hopeful its not EPI maybe a food allergy or maybe just a stressed immune system...

It could quite possibly be the giardia coming back into the mix....who knows

Luckily I signed up with pet first healthcare through my work so some of the vet visits won't hurt our wallets as much...

I'll try to get some newer pictures up...her ears are fulling up (finally)

were running low on the probiotics so maybe i'll go pick up some human grade stuff tomorrow. 

Oh my goodness, these photo's of Ellie are just adorable.  What a beautiful baby she is. 

Thankyou so much for posting them.

Lynn & girls.

oh lovely pics tho not sure if the cats so sure....looks like shes saying "this IS my bed you know am just leting you sit here" ha ha

kelking at 04:28AM on Mar 20, 2010

oh lovely pics tho not sure if the cats so sure....looks like shes saying "this IS my bed you know am just leting you sit here" ha ha

haha exactly...it was bought for Ellie but Olive has taken it as her nightly sleep spot other than our bed....

When her stool dries out a little we notice little white specks...would this tell us anything?

It is not worms...this has been pretty constant and it was happening before/during/after her drontal doses (wormer)

Hi,

As far as the white stuff in dried/drying stools, Tara's has that too...I'm not sure if it is bits of undigested food, but Tara's quite stable and her stools look great, so I wouldn't worry too much about finding it in Ellie's poop...

I just posted this on another tread about another dog....I swear I got too much fresh air being outside all day today!!! The good news is I have happy, sleeping dogs at my feet!

Ellie is adorable - I love her!

What an eventful day...

Ellie still was having issues...we scheduled a vet appointment tomorrow...

We spoke to our breeder over the weekend and she suggested we give her some pepcid to help balance her back and get rid of the mucusy stool. We also put her on a bland diet and got some prozyme from our local health pet food store. She started the bland diet of boiled chicken and rice last night...This morning her first stool was very mucusy and still pudding like...Her next ones really scared us, we started noticing some blood and it was very mucusy...We contacted our breeder again and she said that it is not that uncommon with a dog that has had the runs for a long time and not to freak out unless she was not acting like herself. She had a normal day and played a lot and didn't show any signs of acting differently, played full force with our neighbors heeler mix...

then her last 2 passes tonight were very solid and kept form!! I don't think i have ever been so happy about poop! Of course the rice has something to do with it so we'll talk it over with the vet tomorrow. 

If she says it looks like she is coming out of it we'll probably hold off on asking for the tests. 

Hi Grant.  Congratulations on the firm poops!  Don't take this wrong, but you did a no-no.  You made more than 1 change at once.  Oops.  It could be the bland diet, but it also could be you added the prozyme, which is a plant based enzyme to help digest food.  The blands usually worked pretty good for us, too, so it very well could be that.   Or the enzymes worked.  Or a combo of both.  Guess none of us thought to say only  make one change at a time, waiting 3-5 days between changes, so you know what works.  At least you are getting results, now to know which change you made did it.  Talk to your vet, let her know the changes you just made and then see what she thinks.  The main thing right now, you have the results you wanted, so that is definately a giant step forward.  Good luck to you guys.  Let us know what the vet says.  Again, congratulations.  And I don't think there is a one of us here that thought we could get excited over good poops, but we all do!

Getting excited over poop...We'll, you've come to the right place!!!!  We're always excited over good poop!!!

Let us know what your vet says today.

We all get excited over good poop...congratulations!  Karen is right, and we made a mistake in not telling you to only make one change at a time...and document everything from what she's eating/drinking, amounts, enzymes to what her stools are like in volume, color, consistancy and how often.  It can be a huge help later and if you'd like, at the top of the page is a journal you can print out.  Let us know what the vet says.