EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

How long does it take?  She has had 'formed' stools but soft and all of them are still that pale mustardy color.  I am mixing 2tsps of powdered enzymes with two cups of raw room temperature food and letting them incubate for 30 minutes and repeating this 3-4 times a day.  For about a week I was putting the enzymes only on top of cold food until I found this website and while it took a few more days figuring the best way to thaw frozen food I starting mixing the enzymes in with room temperature food.  So she has been getting the same amounts and frequencies for 13 days but how they have been prepared is different and I haven't seen any change for better or for worse.  I feel like expecting some kind of result after 2 weeks isn't being impatient but maybe I'm wrong when it comes to results of an epi dog???

Troy and Jade

Hello Troy, Our experience has been that enzymes show their effect (good or bad) fairly soon...within 24 hours as the food digests. What brand enzymes are you using? Also, if she has SIBO, which commonly accompanies EPI and can cause loose/yellow stools, she will need antibiotics... Tylan or Metro are usually used.

I'm using PANCREZYME

Okay... Those are fine. Does she have stomach rumbling/noise or gas? These along with that yellow color of stool can indicate SIBO... If you have not yet reviewed it, There is a tab/link at the top of the page with info on it. Another possible cause could be too much enzyme per feeding... Since your feeding raw - sometimes you do not need to use as much enzyme as raw is easier to digest. So you could try slightly ( 1/8 tsp ) less and see if that makes a difference. How is her weight? Is she losing/holding steady?

She was tested for SIBO when the vet was testing for epi but could she have developed it within the last 17 days or so? Her weight is holding steady. I also forgot to add that I started giving her salmon oil and b12 supplements with her food yesterday morning.

Hi Troy.  Raw has natural enzymatic properties.  Too much enzyme can have the same effect as too little.  So...I am wondering,  like Becky says, to try to decrease.  We started w/ the 1:1 when we switched to raw, now I have been at 1/2 that dose since working down 1/8 tsp every few days.  A while ago, I thought it may need to be upped some, stools got softer, funky colored, and stinkier.  So I would try to go down 1/8 tsp every few days, if they get worse, stop it, obviously, but if it seems like better, keep doing it, but wait in between to be safe.  It's hard, I know, to go slow.  Most on raw I think use about 1/4 less. 

The test for SIBO is not conclusive.  The sites will say that also.  Sometimes we have to go by signs alone.  But since you are using raw, I'd try the enzyme first, if no result, we'll discuss other things.

While you are trying this, can you stop the salmon oil?  Let's get the stools right, then add it back.  This way, you know what is or is not working.  IF things go South, you won't know if it's the salmon oil or the lower enzymes.

Good luck.

Hi Troy,

I was where you are not very long ago.  It took us a good 3 weeks or more to get positive results and some good people here let me know that there journey was much longer--that helped because then I knew it might take months, but it would turn around.   It is good that she is holding steady and not losing weight.  You have good advice here about the enzymes.  It is very difficult to go slow when you are in the middle of this.  But it is the best way.

Antibiotics may be in order if it is SIBO.

Hang in there.

Barb

Hi Troy,  Jackie's poops did not firm up and become right until I started her on the B12 shots - weekly and I do them myself.

regardless of the results of SIBO testing - for us - yellow poops are usually a very strong indicator of a SIBO flare up

HI Troy and Jade~

And welcome!

Call your vet and ask if he/she would be agreeable to putting Jade on Tylan (Tylosin) for 30 days....for SIBO. Usually with an EPI dog, yellowish poops = SIBO.

What could be happening is that the Pancrezyme IS working... but if SIBO is at play (and it sounds like it) tat you will ontinue to see mushy yellowish poops until you also treat for SIBO too.As someone said above... when tested the results can indicate SIBO... but sometimes, even when it looks like the dog does not have SIBO.... it does.. SIBO is also present in 70% of all dogs diagnosed with EPI.

I started on Pancrezyme... didn't notice any change for two entire weeks.... and then finally one day... my Izzy started having solid poops.... but it sure took forever ... even the vet started calling me and asking if her poops had solidified yet.....he started getting worried.....we are not 100% sure... but we now "suspect" that it took two weeks because  the Tylan needed to kick in and addressed the SIBO.

Karen also made a good point about the possibility that you might be giving too much enzymes... too much or too little can perpetuate loose stools..... but because you mentioned the yellow color, my first thoughtis that it could be SIBO interferring with Jade's improvement........ just my thought on this..

I think the others are right... raw has a lot of water content and less solid... enzymes only digest solid... so need a fair bit less.

For instance... I fed kibble with Tryplace (one capsule about the same as one teaspoon)... kibble was about 4ozs to the one capsule... but raw is 8oz to one capsule.

Try one and a half (level) teaspoons to 2 cups of raw for 3 days... then go up or even down if it looks better but not quite right,,, by one eighth of a teaspoon every 3 day.

Val

Hi Troy,

It took several months for Tara to start responding  to treatment...She was actually loosing weight because she wasn't eating...One thing this condition will teach you is patience...If she's not loosing, consider it a plus!!!

Is there a slimy skin to the stools? If so, a mucosal finish to poop is an indicator of SIBO and as others have said will intefer with her system forming prefferable poop. When we first started enzymes with Lulu we saw an immediate improvement within 24 hours only to go backwards as SIBO flared. This see-sawed numerous times until we found the right antibiotic for her (Tylan) and went to a grain free diet. Then the poo improved.

Craig

Hello Troy,

I have been wondering how you and Jade are doing....  has her stool improved any yet?

Hi Troy & Jade,

Just popped in here to say 'Welcome to our EPI forum' as I was away last week when you joined.

I can see you've already had lots of great advice, but just wanted to say to feel free to post some photo's here of Jade.  We all love photo's & there are instructions in our files on how to do this. 

Again, welcome.

Lynn & girls. 

Her stools have gotten much better.  Nice and solid.  Still not dark but they are firm

Good girl, Jade!

Sometimes the food can cause a lighter coloured poop... my girl only has white meat so the poop is often lighter colour.... but tweaking the enzymes by just a touch can make all the difference.

Still as long as the poop is nice and firm (my vet said it should be firm but not hard... like putty you use to fit windows)

Val

Wonderful news Troy.... and Jade!  Along with the good health indication, I know firm stools sure make life easier when it comes to yard cleanup duties