EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Hi Guys

Well, got the EPI results back - have not spoken to Vet yet (this afternoon) as in France they come to the owner first.

Reading them it does not seem he has EPI unless I am reading them wrong (and also I know from my nutritional tests that what the labs say is normal is sometimes not entirely the true picture!);

TLi             13 (range 6-35)

B12            240 (range 220-800)

Folates       9 (range 6-25)

I am awaiting the stool test results.

However, I started his enzymes on Saturday with 2 tabs (Tryplase) on Sun and 2 on Monday.  Now his stools have been normal for over 10 days now but his appetite was not so great - the first day I mixed the enzymes with a raw egg in the morning - by Sunday night he was ravenous and ate 3 carcasses something he hasn't done for a while (2 has been his max) even though Saturday night he had eaten a large (over 2 kg) pork trotter.  Monday I mixed them with about 50g of raw kidney in the morning and a little flax oil as they weren't quite mixing enough and Sunday night he had two carcasses without a problem.  Monday night he ate two carcasses but was a little slow again and was eating a fair bit of grass during the day.  Today this morning he was sick with a large sausage of grass but very little bile which is new but I upped the tabs to 3 this morning anyway with an egg again - I am wondering if the flax oil might not be quite right for him now???

Anyhow, its interesting that he has improved appetite anyway with the enzymes so I would welcome your opinions...

PS: I should have said I am mixing the enzymes in then leaving the food to sit to room temp for 30-40 mins....

Hi Laura, I will let the experts comment here, but just wanted to say I am happy to hear he is feeling better.  Glad that Mishka does not have EPI, but now to figure out what IS going on...

HI Laura ~

It certainly does not appear that Mishka has EPI....BUT it dose appear that Mishka has low/normal B12  which can hinder nutrtion absorption and appeptite issues.  When you talk to your vet ask them if they would be comfortable startign Mishka on B12 injections to help bring the levels back to center range.

Just why the B12 is so low can be any number of conditions.... hopefully your vet will have some insight.

The enzymes are fine to give temporarily even if the dog doesn't have EPI....but talk to your vet about this. Sometimes when something is going on... the pancreas "temporarily" stops or "temporarily" doesn't effectively produce enough enzymse to digset the food... so the replacement enzymes will do the job for it. until you and your vet can figure out what is really going on with Mishka.

Please keep us posted!

Just got back from vet - as far as Vet is concerned everything is within range so there is no need to do anything - until she has results back from pooh test anyway.  I mentioned the B12 was on the low side but unfortunately as you will all probably well know the stock answer is 'they are within the normal range'....

I will wait for the pooh test results and take it from there I think.  Good news is she has agreed to vaccinate every two years apart from lepto and rabies.

Will be in touch!

Laura ~

Isn't it mind-boggling how different vets have different attitudes on certain things.

My EPI gal Izzy does not have B12 deficiency..... but because it is such a concern with EPI dogs, that i give her Metagenics Intrinsi B12/Foalte pills on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The vet i go to in the US (it is a very busy vet clinic with 11 vets on staff who see anywhere between 200-250 dogs every day) told me to not only treat my EPI dog with B12 pills mentioned above...3 times a week, but recommended that i give it to all my dogs... and on the days that i do not give the B12, to give an all around B complex pill to the dogs. Said that much of the B's are destroyed nowadays because food is processed... and that at least this way they are assured of getting proper Bs... but if they get too much or don't  need it... it is a water soluble vitamin and they will pee out the excess.  So far this is working for us.  Since Mishka is low-normal B12... you might want to keep an eye on her and maybe even research this further someday.....

The pill product i mentioned above can be purchased on the itnernet.... Just a thought....

http://www.iherb.com/Metagenics-Intrinsi-B12-Folate-180-Tablets/19482?utm_source=gb&utm_medium=f2

Hi Laura,

Has Mishka been scoped for biopsies for reference to IBD?  I've been blessed/cursed to have two dogs with this condition and it's not fun... Before my Tess passed, I was considering frog legs as a novel protein as she had pretty much been through them all...

Hello Laura,

I was thinking along the lines of Donna and perhaps IBD may be at play. I also just reread your initial post and am wondering if Mishka is on antibiotics? If not perhaps SIBO or similar bacterial overgrowth is about despite the negative results for EPI (which is great). Perhaps the gut has been traumatised due to either the food allergies or the reaction to the anitinflammatries. Maybe there's another allergy in the mix? Maybe I should go to vet school before guessing too much 

Not much help perhaps but then trying 30-60 days on a less rugged antibiotic like Tylan may prove beneficial...

Craig

Craig~

You make me laugh!!!

Craig,

You are funny!  When I got laid-off in January, I actually *thought* about going back to college to study vet medicine...Then I thought, now how in the hell am I going to pay for it????  I got great scores on my GMAT GRE and such, but that was too many years ago...:lol:  I was accepted to law school back then, but didn't go because of $$ and I though instead of being an ambulance chaser, I'd be better suited as a healer...Too late to change your major at that point!