EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

We have been given the prescription for the Pancrezyme but it is a bit out of our budgit.  We have been thinking about trying th beef pancreas but I am wondering if that would be less effective then the pig pancreas.  Please we are very new to this and we could use some advice.

Thank you.

Hi Cam...welcome to the forum.   Maybe you can tell us a little about your pup.   A lot of us purchase our enzymes from     javascript:mox(); and the cost savings is substantial - compared to the prescription.   I have no experience with the beef pancreas or pig, but I am sure others here will chime in.   Looking forward to helping you with your pup.

Hi... is it "Cam"????

Many dogs do great on the raw pancreas... but not all..... the powdered enzymes are more consistently effective... BUT i know exactly what you mean about the expense.. We started on Pancrezymes and i about fainted when they told me how much it cost and i quickly did the calculations for how long it would last..  EEEKkkkkkkkk!

Anyway.... what many of us in the USA use (and i se that you are from Colorado) are enzymes from EnzymeDiane:

GENERIC PANCREATIN (available in the US but can be shipped to certain countries outside of the US) Many people here on the EPI FORUM use these generic enzymes for a savings of anywhere between 30-50%. If you are interested in ordering bulk-priced supplemental pork-based enzymes, processed in the US, they can be directly purchased from http://www.enzymediane.com/

Pancreatin 6x10  (batch fr 3/25/10) Lipase 70,840 USP units, Protease 448,000 USP units, Amylase 512,000 USP Unit. 

COST:  8 oz for $42,

1 kilo for $134  (shipping included)

or you can buy:

Pancreatin 8x10 Lipase 111,720 USP units, Protease 579,600 USP units, Amylase 694,400 USP Unit. 

COST:  8 oz for $52, 1 kilo for $154  (shipping included)

                                   For Your Information:   1 kilo = 35.274 ounces

Pancrezyme is about $150 for 12 ounces.....so the generic enzymes are about 1/3 the cost.

Or you can go to:

HARE TODAY - Raw Ground Beef Pancreas   http://www.hare-today.com/

Ground Beef pancreas (can be used as an alternative to pork enzymes) $2.29 per pound. Click on Raw Pet Foods and then select "Organ meats"

"One to three or four ounces of raw pancreas can replace one teaspoon of pancreatic extract. Raw pancreas may be frozen in cubes for future use and thawed naturally, but never heat on the stove or in the microwave."

Hope this helps... and BTW... welcome to our EPI family... if you have any other questions, just ask, we'll help if we can.

We have a six year old gsd how has been sick for almost three years but just diagnosed with epi. It has only been the last three months that she has been really sick. Her last vet visit she weighed 40lbs. She has all the classic symptoms, ravenous eating, loose or runny stool and she is just skin and bones now. We are looking into several different treatment options and thus far the pig pancreas seems like a good option, considering cost. But please if anyone has any advice I would love to hear it.

Thank you,

How much enzyme are you giving her?   Initially we recommend 1 tsp per cup of food.  Also - food should be grain free - totally grain free.   Until she becomes stable - she should just get her food - no treats, nothing - I found that so hard to do, but it is for their own good.   She may be able to handle grain - but a lot of dogs cannot and it is recommended to go grain free initially.   Usual recommendation is to give 150% of her normal food to bulk her back up. Was she also tested for B12 (cobalamin) and folate - a large percentage of dogs with EPI also have low B12 and need supplements.   The Pancreatin from Enzyme Diane has been a lifesaver for me.  I was afraid to change to it but I found it was no different from the Pancreazyme I was getting from the vet and paying much more for.    A lot of EPI dogs also have SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) and use Tylan (antibiotic) to treat - you may want to consider having your vet give you a 30 day supply to see if this helps.   This is just a start and you will get great info here...hang in there and I hope Matou is feeling better real soon...Please let us know exactly what you are currently giving her - food and medicine.

Hello Cam,

Welcome to the Forum, but sorry your pup (Matou?) has been so sick     Hopefully now that you have the diagnosis of what the problem is, you can start treatment and get her feeling better.   With the diagnosis of EPI, did the vet check or mention anything about SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) or low B12?  These 2 conditions often accompany EPI and without addressing them also, progress can be hindered.  Treatment for them usually consists of antibiotics for the SIBO (Tylan often is used) and B12 shots/pills supplementation.  Another change to consider is diet... many EPI dogs do well on a diet of grain free kibble or raw.  And also it helps to start keeping a log of everything that goes in her and out of her so that you can refer back to it over time and see what small tweaks here and there worked or did not work... usually over time you can see a pattern.  Best wishes to you and your pup!

HI Cam and welcome to you and Matou!

Many of us here, myself included purchase our enzymes from Diane:  http://www.enzymediane.com/  They are about 1/3 the price of the prescriptions and work just as well!

Raw pancreas can be tough to source, but if you can get it and want to try it, this is a good website to help learn how to prepare and use it:  http://www.ellsbury.com/cheetahfaqs.htm

Cam ~

Everything everyone suggested above is pretty much right  on.. Problem with EPI, as Becky mentioned  is that more often than not, you can treat the dog with enzymes for the EPI, but many times it also has one or both of the secondary conditions that tend to accompny EPI 50-70% of the time... B12 deficiency and/or SIBO.... an unortunately, if either of these 2 secondary conditions are gong on and not treated for them also....it will hinder Matou from getting better.

Since money is tight for your right now....you may not be able to afford the B12 & folate test (it is about $100).... if so... ask your vet (especially if Matou has any gas, tummy grumbling, or light/yellowish colored poop) ... anyway... if so, ask your vet if he/she would consider giving Matou Tylan (Tylosin)... it is an antibiotic for SIBO need to be given for 30 days. 

http://www.epi4dogs.com/sibo.htm

Also, because money is tight... again, ask your vet if he/she would be comfortable giving Matou B12 injections (see TAMU protocol... scroll halfway down the page... share with your vet http://www.epi4dogs.com/b12.htm ) for a low B12 deficiency.... just taking a wild guess that low B12 may be going on also.....the good thing about B12 is if there is no deficiency, the dog will just pee it out because it is a water soluble vitamin... HOWEVER... if there is B12 deficiency going on... oh my, getting the B12 can make all the difference inthe world helping the dog to improve...... but again... please talk to yor vet about this.

And as Michele summed up the diet portion perfectly.... try grain-free.... not all ..but most respond best to food with 4% or less fiber content in it.

Dick van Patten has some grain free food that is reasonable price-wise, and of course there are others... there is a list you can check out on the diet page http://www.epi4dogs.com/diet.htm scroll halfway down and there are some suggestions and there is a link that you can check out a variety of grain-free foods:

If you are interested in looking at some lists of Grain Free food... please check out the following links:

 http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free

 http://www.naturalpetmarket.com/category_detail.cfm?categoryid=176&varpageid=999&uplevel=All%20Natural%20Dog%20Food&level=Grain-Free

Hi Cam,

I am so sorry that Matou is not doing well right now.  But now that you have the diagnosis, you can help her back to health. You have come to the right place.  Everyone here will give you the best guidance and help you to get Matou back on her feet.   Try not to get too overwhelmed with all of the information.  It is a lot to absorb but if you hang in there it will become more clear as you as you become more familiar with what is needed. Take it one day at a time.  

Keep us posted.

Barb

Hi Cam

My GSD Ulric is on fresh pig pancreas. I live in Canada and get it for about $3 a pound. It will usually cost $30 every month or so. We have it ground up and put it in small snack bags, which our vet tells me is enough for one meal. It is a pretty nasty job and we had to buy a small upright freezer to keep it all in ( did not want it to be with our food) He is also on only raw meat, mostly chicken. He did not do well on beef. Our butcher friend grinds the pancreas for us and makes up one pound bags of chicken. It is costly but Ulric is gaining weight. He did get SIBO and had to go on antibiotics that has made a big difference. 

It can seem difficult at first but once you figure out the magic combination for your dog it gets better pretty quickly. Lots of great suggestions on this board. 

So welcome to you and Matou, looking forward to watching her get better. 

I just wanted to say that this group has been an immense help in the beginning of this thing called EPI.  They are all very caring, knowledgable and caring.

I already suspected EPI before Kaisa was diagnosed this month and went in armed with the information from this site.  My vet was all for it and didn't even try to push the prescription enzymes.  She saw that what I would be getting from Enzyme Diane is just as good and said if I could get it there cheaper, to go for it.  I should be receiving my first shipment in the next few days and I'd be glad to pass on to you what is left from what others graciously gave to me when we first found out.  If interested, please send me an email at :

angelsmum24 at yahoo dot com

She also lets me do the B12 therapy at home and for 300 doses of B12 and 100 syringes, it was only $27 and makes such a huge difference in how Kaisa eats and acts.   As the other ladies have mentioned it's inexpensive and can make a huge improvement but it won't hurt them either as anything they don't need will be excreted in their urine.

Good luck!  Kaisa has improved tremendously in just the week and half since her diagnosis now that we have the right courses of treatment and I'm sure Matou will too!

Welcome Cam & Matou,

Pleased you have found us.  I see you've already been given lots of great advice so I'll just say a very warm welcome to our epi forum.   I know how very hard it is to watch our beloved dogs so thin & unwell, but we have all been there & things do get better once everything comes together.  Hopefully this will be very soon for your lovely girl.  Hang in there.  We are all here to help you in any way we can. 

Lynn & girls.