EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Ulric was at the Vet again today. During the night we were woke to him licking and licking. When he got up there was a oil film on the floor where he was laying. It smelled really bad also he has had diarrhea all day. 

I gave him a bath this morning but the smell was back within a couple of hours. The Vet thinks it might be a fungus infection and is treating him for that. We are to feed him only white rice for 2 weeks because might be an allergy to chicken. He would not test for B12 deficiency. Ulric is still on prednisone and and now an anti fungal also. He lost 4 pounds this week. 

I am so worried about him. My daughter is getting very frustrated and is thinking of putting him to sleep because she does not have the resources to care for him. I will take over for her if that is the case and do everything I can to keep him healthy. 

I am at a loss right now, he seemed to be doing so well. 

I really hate to see him like this. 

Hi Bernadette,

Hugs to you and healing vibes are in overdrive for Ulric!!!  My Tara has also not been doing well, but we participated in a hair study and the vet there has sugesstions that we will here tomorrow...Tara has lost 15 pounds in 3 weeks and I'm scared to death...

Thanks Donna 

It sounds like you need hugs and Tara needs healing also. I know what you mean about being scared to death. It is so hard to see them start to fail. I am cooking rice right now, he is so hungry he is back to being a crazed dog. I can only hope it is the chicken. Let me know how it goes with the vet, I am thinking about going to a holistic vet here just to see what she might suggest. 

Bernadette at August 30, 2010 at 7:48 PM

Ulric was at the Vet again today. During the night we were woke to him licking and licking. When he got up there was a oil film on the floor where he was laying. It smelled really bad also he has had diarrhea all day. 

I gave him a bath this morning but the smell was back within a couple of hours. The Vet thinks it might be a fungus infection and is treating him for that. We are to feed him only white rice for 2 weeks because might be an allergy to chicken. He would not test for B12 deficiency. Ulric is still on prednisone and and now an anti fungal also. He lost 4 pounds this week. 

I am so worried about him. My daughter is getting very frustrated and is thinking of putting him to sleep because she does not have the resources to care for him. I will take over for her if that is the case and do everything I can to keep him healthy. 

I am at a loss right now, he seemed to be doing so well. 

I really hate to see him like this. 

So sorry to hear about Ulric.  I sure hope as you do that this takes care of the issue.  Good luck and keep us posted.

Bernadette - I cannot believe the vet will not test for B12 deficiency - that is just a normal test to do for an EPI dog - do I dare say you may need a new vet.  When you ask for something and they refuse, it is time to look elsewhere.  EPI is manageable - he is having a blip.   My gut is telling me this is not the vet for you...any thoughts on changing vet and having someone who will work with you...

I will send Ulrich much love and healing light.  EPI can be a bit to manage - but once they stabilize you may only have small ups and downs, but the love you receive from them is well worth the work it takes.  Please please please do not let her give up.   Thank you for being there for him...

Bernadette,

I am sorry to read Ulric is not doing well.  A diet of rice only for an EPI dog???  If an allergy to chicken is suspected why not try a different protein source? 

Donna,

I am also sorry to read Tara is still not doing well... I thought she was back on track after her recent problems?

Cyber hugs to you both!

Bernadette... also wondering if it is possible there is a problem with the raw pancreas you have been using with Ulric and the oil film on the floor was undigested fat?  Have you ever tried him on the powdered enzyme?

Hi Bernadette, so sorry to hear Ulric is having some trouble, while being fairly yuk it is probably only a blip/reaction/gastro thing hopefully. But I have to agree with Becky, the mention of rice set off the big red flashing EPI light that I have notionally sitting on the top of my computer screen! Did your vet really tell you to do this?? and they won't test for B12??? Hopefully it was your dinner you were referring to 

Seriously, even if he can handle some rice that's a whole heap of insouble protein that his system will need to deal with all at once. I can't understand why a vet would prescribe a grain only diet for a dog for two weeks, if it's the elimination of fat they're after there are alternatives. What's he been eating up to this point?

Craig

Donna, sorry to hear about Tara, golly there's a few stable ones having blips at the moment it seems. Look forward to hearing what the vet has to say.

best

craig

Thanks everyone...It took me literally a year or two and a new dog (Zoey) to teach Tara that food was okay...She's been good and actually on a diet for the last few years, but I'm not sure what's going on now....

Becky, she's had a huge backslide since I last posted about her....

Bernadette, I'm sorry also to read about your problems with Ulric.   Must say I agree whole heartedly with everything everyone else is saying here.  I would think seriously about seeing someone else if I were you, even if just for a second opinion.  The rice thing doesn't sound right.  I'd be a bit worried about that, & for 2 weeks Mmmmm.

Please keep us in touch & let us know how he's doing in the next day or so.  

love & hugs to you both.

Lynn

I know my knowledge is limited, but I agree that the rice thing can't be right. Thinking of you and Ulric and hoping that he improves.

Donna - sorry to hear that Tara is not doing so well, I hope she manages to put some weight on soon x

Thanks to everyone for the concern and well wishes.

It was my daughter that had him at the vets so when she came home and said rice for 2 weeks it just didn't sound right to me either. Rice? I thought these dogs have trouble with grains?

I was going to buy the B12 and give it to him anyway, and have been thinking about trying the powder enzymes but didn't until now because he was stable. 

My daughter came home thinking Ulric was all done in, the vet told her that if the rice didn't work then he would need a doggy colonoscopy! 

which would be $$$$$$$, don't mean to sound cynical but this just sounds crazy to me. Time for Nana to the rescue. Hubby also wants to do whatever we can to help. 

So calling a holistic vet today, and then will keep going until I find a vet who will work with us. 

Has anyone ever tried protein powder? I have a good quality whey isolate was thinking of using that for him just until he is feeling better. I feel like we are starting all over again. Poor Ulric he just wants to eat. 

Bernadette, don't let it throw you, we pretty much had to start again as everything we'd done had done only so much good and we just couldn't get past a certain point. We bit the bullet, Lulu bit the grain free kibble and it all turned out for the best...

Craig

Hi Bernadette,

We all have set-backs from time to time & I'm hoping this is all it is with Ulric.   My Megg has had EPI for 3.5 years and has been stable for at least 2 of those years.  The first year was not good for us, but we eventually got there. 

All of a sudden, for no apparent reason, a couple of months ago, we had a huge set-back.  She stopped eating, was very sick, no energy.  Turned out it was a severe dose of SIBO and it hit very suddenly.  Vet gave her a couple of injections, anti's etc., & she came good very quickly.  Almost a month later, when I cut her Tylan down from twice a day to once a day, it hit again.  So, back to the twice a day Tylan which we plan on doing for at least a couple of months this time.  All is going well again now thank goodness.  It is so scarey though & I feel what you are going through.   

I think it is wonderful that you are doing so much for Ulric.  You are a wonderful Nana, with an equally wonderful husband. 

Hang in there.  Hopefully this is just a little set-back & all will come together very soon. 

Hugs to you & Ulric.  

Sorry to hear Ulric is having trouble.  I do hope he feels better and will keep him in my thoughts.  Please keep us updated on his condition.

Hi Bernadette,

I'm sorry to hear Ulric has had a setback. As most have mentioned feeding a diet of rice to an EPI dog makes no sense.  Sometimes when we are stressed we don't always hear/understand what is said and perhaps this is the case with your daughter - maybe you could speak to the vet yourself. You could tell the vet, not ask, you want B12/Folate testing done. You could also buy the Metagenics B12 pills and start Ulric on them yourself if you are comfortable doing that. It can't hurt him.

Keep us posted.

HI Bernadette~

I am so so sorry to hear that Ulric is not feeling well.

The rice suggestion really set off warning bells for me also... that is a Big "no-no" for EPI dogs....so maybe there was a misunderstanding and you can speak directly to your vet to understand first hand what was said and what is going on.

Regarding the enzymes.... if you are feeding raw pancreas...because, although good for many EPI dogs....  not all EPI dogs respond to the raw pancreas....and this might be he problem.  PLEASE get  some powdered enzymes. Powdered enzymes are the gold standard for EPI dogs... but  if you cannot get the powder then there are other forms of packaged enzymes such as CREON, etc. that is available in Canada.  However i do know that EnzymeDiane http://www.enzymediane.com/  can and does ship the powdered enzymes to Canada.

Unfortunately with EPI, sometiems we cannot tell what the "trigger" to the set-back is unless we do the tedious process of elimination.... so if it IS a chicken allergy.... there are many, MANY single-source protein commercial foods available that you can try that does not contain rice or chicken.  Or you can simply just feed human-grade beef... for a week and see if you notice a difference in the poop.

The other thing that i am uncomfortable with what i read is that your vet won't test for B12. Please , Please explain to your vet that it is your dog-- your dollar..... and from all the information you have read on EPI ... that low B12 occurs as a secondary condition in about 50% of all dogs diagnosed with EPI... in addition to that 70% of these same EPI dogs also develop SIBO which requires specific antibiotics (such as Tylan or Metronidazole) for 30 days.

The problem with either of these very common secondary conditions (B12 + SIBO) is that if the dog DOES have either or both... even if you are giving enzymes to the dog... they will start have EPI symptoms... such as what you are describing...... you need to treat the whole dog and all the issues... not just one or two of the issues that accompany EPI.

• Diet
• Enzymes
• B12 (if needed)
• Antibiotics for SIBO (if needed)

Also... feel free to share with your vet, published research studies by veterinarian researchers on HOW to properly treat EPI ... jsut print the entire following pages:

EPI http://www.epi4dogs.com/epi.htm

B12 http://www.epi4dogs.com/b12.htm

SIBO http://www.epi4dogs.com/sibo.htm

And , as i posted for Tonia.... you can also

 print the recent Purina article on EPI which sites Dr. David Williams, Dr. Jor Steiner, Dr. Leigh Anne Clark on EPI and references this website as an EPi resource which is on the News! section http://www.epi4dogs.com/news.htm of the website... just scroll down until you see the article "EPI Article in Purina Pro Club Newsletter  - published May 2010"  and print the PDF: Dog_Apr2010.pdf

You also might want to print the tri-fold "EPI in ALL BREEDS Brochures-VISTA-6-10-10.pdf" EPI Brochure on http://www.epi4dogs.com/downloads.htm and bring it to your vet..... surmises EPI in a nutshell

Bernadette,

I am so sorry to hear that Ulric is having problems.  I just love looking at his picture when you post--it gives me such a chuckle.  I cannot believe they don't want to do the B12 test and yet I do believe it because  we had the same reaction with Kolby and now are deciding what to do with the results.  Why are some vets so resistant to do a test that will yield necessary information???

Please keep us posted on how he is doing.  We are thinking of you and sending prayers your way.

Barb