EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
managing EPI
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Member Posts: 787 |
Recently a friend sent pictures from the breeder of the Shiloh Shepherd puppy she was getting. It gave us puppy fever. If you recall, we lost Maya's brother from another mother in April. If we go forward, the new pup would join our family in April or May.
Maya was diagnosed w EPI in late October and has been stable for about 2 months. But, it's still a learning process. Is it crazy to think about raising a puppy and managing Maya's EPI at the same time? Any and all opinions welcome.
Also, I know Terry has two Shilohs. If you read this, Terry...Any thoughts on the breed?
Apologize if this is off topic. I just really value your opinions/experience. | |
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-- Paula and Maya (bday 12/21/06) (diagnosed 10/26/10 TLi 1.5, B12 659 (ref:249-733), weight 52 lbs. After 30 days, retested B12/folate - B12 plummeted to 200, which greatly affected her personality. After following B12 protocol, currently giving weekly B12 shots at home. Weight on 4/24/12: 72 lbs - the picture of health.
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Member Posts: 4186 |
Hi Paula,
Nope, you’re not crazy – You’re a dog lover! Hey, I have 3 dogs, so I’m not going to try to talk you out of it!!! IMHO, the more the merrier!!:D | |
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-- Donna
Owned by Tara, a 8 YO GSD w/EPI and DM dx'd at about a year old. Fed Taste of the Wild Lamb formular kibble and enhance this diet with cooked meat, veggies and fruit, Enzymes: Pancreatin 8x - 1 tsp per cup of food. Suppliments include 1000 mg Wild Salmon oil, Glucosomine/Chondrotin/MSM and Probiotic acidophilus. Stable since 2005 Also owned by sidekicks' Zoey my rescued GSD and Max, a 10 MO PWC rescue - along with Tess (GSD) and Zeke (PWC) with Angel wings
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Member Posts: 1256 |
Paula: I'm sorry but you're not going to end up with an analytical type of discussion from me on this. I have two dogs at the moment but to be honest, have shared life with 3 most often. Maybe I should rephrase this...I personally have two dogs and my youngest son, his wife and their kids who have been staying here, have two dogs. So...I guess my opinion is that it's not something you'd even consider if you didn't think you could handle it in every way. You are a loving, responsible person so...yep I vote for another heart to love! As far as Shilohs...I haven't personally lived with one but those I know of, are wonderful dogs and they certainly are beautiful. | |
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-- Linda, Akira, Indy and the bratcats Akira 101 lb GSD, DOB 9/18/03 Dx'd around her first birthday. First TLI score 1.1, retested 9/07 score had lowered to 0.7. "Normally" eats 2 cups Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Canine Formula, twice daily. 2 t Pancreatin (or 1 t per cup of food) 8x enzymes given right before each meal in heaping t meat baby food with warm water and mixed to a gruel type texture.
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Member Posts: 787 |
Thanks for the encouragement. I do think Maya needs a playmate. It's snowing here in the mountains of NC. We woke up to 8 inches of powder. More coming down now. Maya and I have been out playing. Yay, snow! | |
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-- Paula and Maya (bday 12/21/06) (diagnosed 10/26/10 TLi 1.5, B12 659 (ref:249-733), weight 52 lbs. After 30 days, retested B12/folate - B12 plummeted to 200, which greatly affected her personality. After following B12 protocol, currently giving weekly B12 shots at home. Weight on 4/24/12: 72 lbs - the picture of health.
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Member Posts: 1256 |
I'll be happy to hear about the snow and playing in it from you rather than having it myself :/. | |
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-- Linda, Akira, Indy and the bratcats Akira 101 lb GSD, DOB 9/18/03 Dx'd around her first birthday. First TLI score 1.1, retested 9/07 score had lowered to 0.7. "Normally" eats 2 cups Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Canine Formula, twice daily. 2 t Pancreatin (or 1 t per cup of food) 8x enzymes given right before each meal in heaping t meat baby food with warm water and mixed to a gruel type texture.
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Member Posts: 919 |
Hi Paula, No you are not crazy. Not only do we have two Shilohs, they both have epi and we are considering a third puppy too. We were thinking of this summer or fall but I may want to wait one more year. Shilohs are wonderful dogs...our third dog will also be a Shiloh. There is a lot going on in the Shiloh world around what registry the breeders belong too that I would be happy to discuss off list. If Maya is pretty stable and you have a good routine going I don't see a problem with bringing in a puppy. What others may be able to answer is whether the addition of a new puppy causes any stress on the dogs in the home and has that caused any setbacks for the epi dogs they have? I was wondering about that myself. But I figure it might be a temporary setback offset by the companionship that will develop. It seems from our experience as well as talking to those who have Shilohs and our trainer that the females are the more dominant in this breed and it was recommended we not have two females, which is how we ended up with a female and male. Our trainers comment: "There's a reason they call them bitches" And even though one of the goals of developing the Shiloh line was to decrease some of the common diseases and medical problems seen in GSD we have: Taiko: severe hip dysplasia in both hips (including arthritis diagnosed by the time she was 2), mitral valve dysplasia (with heart murmur) and epi. Pharaoh: had a number of pano episodes, has mild hip dysplasia on one side caused by an extra vertebrae and epi. In spite of their medical problems they are the sweetest pups around....though they are protective and sound like they will tear you apart while they are outside in our yard or in our car, but will just lick you to death. They come in smooth coat and plush coat and as you can see we prefer plush coat..... | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 2190 |
Go for it
If I had the time I wouldnt hesitate on another dog
Jean | |
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-- Kara:: adopted at five months old 26th December 2009 always hungry more than any of my other dogs became noticeably distressed August 2010 Two vet visits and............. Diagnosed with EPI at 14 months old September 2010 tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611 taking 2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day and eating Nutrix grain free duck and potato kibble and starting to put weight on currently 33 kilos as of 20th June 2011 we also use Tylan if we dont have the time to use the oxytet as it has to be on an empty tum, enzymes at the moment Pancrex granules 3 teaspoons per meal she is 2 yrs old as of 21st July 2011 "UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"
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Member Posts: 711 |
That's kinda like asking me if I want a piece of chocolate.... Of course you need another dog!!!! The folks on this site should own all the dogs in the world (slight exaggeration on my part).... but seriously, who better to care for a healthy dog than those that do so much for an ill one? | |
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-- Butterbean, 6 year old chihuahua, diagnosed in May-June'10 via pancreatic biopsy (in other words, it wasn't there). And now we have the TLI score of 0.7
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Member Posts: 3926 |
Hi Paula - crazy - not here!!! I think it is wonderful you are considering it - If I had the room and the $$ I would have 10 of them!! Sooooo...who is the crazy one here??? | |
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-- Michele "No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich" - having 2 makes you even richer! :-)Jackie (back in pic) Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Stable and happy 115 lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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Site Owner Posts: 7645 |
paula- i have 3 dogs.........need i say more? my 'middle' child is the one with EPI..... izzy is stable, very active, funny crazy pup... and her and my youngest ,lulu,(another female) constantly play and have such a good time teasing, tugging and chasing each other..... except when lulu goes into heat.... then ... as terry suggested......there is a reason they call them bitches..... ........ but other than the heat cycle issue... they are almost glued to each other and really enjoy each other's company. | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 13 |
If you have the time I say go for it! I have 4 dogs, one of which is a 16 week old GSD puppy female. She keeps us on our toes but it's well worth it! | |
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-- Mom to 1.5 year old White German Shepherd male with possible EPI. Currently on Biocase V capsules and feeding Taste of the Wild Salmon, approx. 5 cups per day in 3 separate meals.
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Member Posts: 1527 |
Hi Paula, Please don't apologise for raising a topic not epi related, we are honoured you value our opinions to ask. It's refreshing to speak about others things too.
I agree with everyone else's comments, my only thought is....................................WHEN YOU ARE GONNA GET THE PUPPY, I can't wait. | |
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-- Owned mind, body and soul by a German Shepherd called Bonnie. Forever in my heart 6th September 2007 - 23rd September 2009 x Forever grateful I found this forum x
Bridie (6 year old Lurcher) and Sadie (16 months old German Shepherd, a rescue dog) guided to us by Bonnie's paw
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Member Posts: 727 |
Nothing like a puppy to take the focus of the EPI! In a positive way of course ~ less time to worry about it! I have three dogs now and truthfully I would never just have one now that I know the pleasure of a pack! xox | |
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-- Wallace rescue GSD. Currently feeding James Wellbeloved Turkey and Vegetable Cereal Free and some Butcher's Tripe. Four teaspoons Pancrex Granules and 2 Lypex capsules per meal. (Will go back to raw pig pancreas soon.) Three meals a day 3 times per week, 2 meals a day the other 4 days otherwise he stops eating. Tylan 1/8 teaspoon twice a day (this is half the recommended dose for his weight but the recommended dose made his poos soft!) Synbiotic D-C (probiotic and prebiotic) capsule once a day. Monthly B12 injection.
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Member Posts: 787 |
Thanks, everyone for the support and encouragement. Here's a pic of what our prospective pup will look like. This is my friend's new puppy. 20 pounds when they brought her home at 8 weeks old! OMG.
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-- Paula and Maya (bday 12/21/06) (diagnosed 10/26/10 TLi 1.5, B12 659 (ref:249-733), weight 52 lbs. After 30 days, retested B12/folate - B12 plummeted to 200, which greatly affected her personality. After following B12 protocol, currently giving weekly B12 shots at home. Weight on 4/24/12: 72 lbs - the picture of health.
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Member Posts: 1843 |
I hope you weren't looking for unbiased opinions because I don't think you will find them here. :DSuch an unbiased group!! And all you need to tip you over the edge is a picture like that gorgeous one. When Kolby was first diagnosed we were consumed with his care and all the decisions that had to be made. We thought our lives would never return to normal --whatever that is. Within 4 months we were trying to adopt another dog --with EPI. It turned out that he found another home and we were amazed at how disappointed we were. Our adult children thought we had taken leave of our senses. Sounds like you have a plan. Good luck and we are behind you all the way. Can't wait to see pictures! Barb | |
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Member Posts: 517 |
Such a happy face! I would love to get another dog, but until we have a house instead of an apartment, we'll hold off. After Rose was dx a few months ago, I also said I didn't think I could handle getting another because taking care of her would consume me. HOWEVER, now that things are starting to stabilize, my thoughts return to possibly getting another. I guess when the time is right, they will find us. I think a canine (instead of the current feline) companion would be good for her. I really think she thinks she's a cat! | |
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-- Pamela and Rosina; 9 yr old LH Chihuahua Mix; dx'd 10/26/10; Currently 2.5 lbs overweight at 22.5 lbs. Free fed in AM and PM on 3/8 cup Wellness Core Chicken, Turkey Liver, and Chicken Liver Dry and 2 tbsp Wellness Core Chicken, Turkey Liver, and Chicken Liver canned, 1 tsp pumpkin (sometimes add 2 tbsp greenbeans when she needs more food because of increased appetite from the Temaril) and 1/2 tsp Diane's 8X granulated enzymes; 1 tbsp Wellness 95% Chicken or Turkey and 1/16 tsp 8X enzymes incubated and mixed with 1/16 tsp Tylan in the AM. Taking Temaril occasionally for allergies and Metacam 1X most days for leg pain.
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Member Posts: 919 |
I know I am prejudiced but Shiloh puppies are soooo cute. Looks like she is a plush coat which is our favorite. I assume you are planning from the same breeder? | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 787 |
I'd like to go with the same breeder - she puts videos on youtube of the pups and she's an RN - such a caring, wonderful puppy mom, but I don't think she's breeding anyone any time soon. She hasn't called as she promised to (of course w puppies to get to new homes and snow storms, she's busy). We've found another breeder - this is their first litter - although their male, Kodiak, has been used as a stud - who looks promising. Nothing firm yet. Waiting for things to play out (females to get pregnant and all that). | |
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Member Posts: 2548 |
Hello Paula, Just wanted to pop in and say good luck with your puppy search! | |
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-- ~Becky~
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Member Posts: 919 |
Hi Paula, Just sent you an email with some of my thoughts about Shilohs (other than I love them!). | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Also our dogs are small for the breed....females usually range 80 to over a 100 and males are usually 90 up to 130 lbs., so generally larger than most GSD. But a lot will also depend on the line you are looking at. But be prepared the Shiloh could be much larger than Maya.
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