EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
managing EPI
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Member Posts: 149 |
Well, I guess time to really look into this puking thing. She's doing it more often and it's not after she eats. Gross.....but she's been doing it in bed at like 2 or 3 in the morning and it sounds so watery and gross. Then I hear her eating it. Then I have to get up and clean. Not a fun process at all. | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 3926 |
Angie - it took me 4 or 5 foods before I found one that agreed with Jackie. Something is def off if she is throwing up like that - sorry to hear this...I think I recall you did not use B12 injections yet - is that correct (sometimes it gets confusing). You might want to order some Metagenics B12 Intrinsic factor pills and try them. Jackie did not stabilize until her B12 was leveled out...just a thought...good luck there... | |
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-- Michele "No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich" - having 2 makes you even richer! :-)Jackie (back in pic) Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Stable and happy 115 lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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Member Posts: 1256 |
Angie: I think I need to go back to some of your other posts but please have patience with some questions instead. Is it only in the morning that Blue is getting sick? Have you tried feeding her a small amount at night before bed? | |
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-- Linda, Akira, Indy and the bratcats Akira 101 lb GSD, DOB 9/18/03 Dx'd around her first birthday. First TLI score 1.1, retested 9/07 score had lowered to 0.7. "Normally" eats 2 cups Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Canine Formula, twice daily. 2 t Pancreatin (or 1 t per cup of food) 8x enzymes given right before each meal in heaping t meat baby food with warm water and mixed to a gruel type texture.
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Member Posts: 149 |
Hi! Well, no haven't started b12 yet. Everything else seems to be just perfect but I will probably give that a try. She vomits more in the middle of the night (2 times) and then when she gets up from resting or a quick movement, such as jumping off the bed/couch she seems tohave what I call a burp puke. She currently eats 8 cups of food per day which is alot, but I am still getting her fattened up from her weight loss. I do 4 feedings that are 2 cups each. I am using a 1/4 cup of water to incubate. | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 149 |
Oh! Also...I let the food sit for 20 minutes and her poops are great. | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 717 |
hate to bring up the "S" word - but SIBO is a possiblity too - especially if they are really watery pukes
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Member Posts: 149 |
Real watery. Once she is done licking it up there is barely even a stain. So is that one of the symptoms of SIBO? Ihave an unopened container of Tylan I can start. Is that what is usually recommended? | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 454 |
it sounds like acid reflux to me.. have you tried pepcid? we have similar problems when kona drinks water and then plays. I raised his flat water bowl up off the ground...which seems to have helped. we also use 2.5mg of pepcid 30 mins before a meal 2x /day.
Kona eats 1 cup at each meal and we use 1/4 cup of water to incubate. Are you using dry kibble? | |
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-- My name is Cat. My boyfriend Justin and I are owned by an adorable 1 year old puppy dog named Kona. He is my first dog and we adopted him at 2 months old from the ASPCA. Kona was dx'd 11/15/2010 @ 7months old with cTLI <0.4(EPI), B12= 723 (normal), Folate =20.7 (High). Original weight at diagnosis was 26.8 lbs. Re-test in March cTLI <0.4 (SURPRISE, still EPI), B12=653 (normal), Folate=14 (normal). (this was after major relapse) Feeding schedule - 3/4 cup Taste of the Wild High Prairie dry kibble (bison, venison, sweet potato) in AM and PM with 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin, and 3/4 tspn+1/8tspn 6x EU enzymes from enzymediane.com...midday snack 1/2 cup of TOTW High Prairie +1/2 teaspoon pumpkin and 1/2+1/8 teaspoons of enzyme....bedtime snack 1/4 cup TOTW HP + 1/2 tspn pumpkin + 1/4+1/8 teasoon enzyme. All are incubated for 20 minutes with warm water and stirred multiple times. Antibiotics - approaching our sixth month on these. has doneboth Tylan and Metro. Currently trying to phase out the Tylan giving <1/8 teaspoon in vegetarian capsule with am and pm meals. Probiotics - add 1 acidophilis capsule sprinkled over midday snack and mixed in Current weight 40 lbs!
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Member Posts: 4186 |
Hi Angie,
I agree with Cat....Sounds like acid reflux... | |
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-- Donna
Owned by Tara, a 8 YO GSD w/EPI and DM dx'd at about a year old. Fed Taste of the Wild Lamb formular kibble and enhance this diet with cooked meat, veggies and fruit, Enzymes: Pancreatin 8x - 1 tsp per cup of food. Suppliments include 1000 mg Wild Salmon oil, Glucosomine/Chondrotin/MSM and Probiotic acidophilus. Stable since 2005 Also owned by sidekicks' Zoey my rescued GSD and Max, a 10 MO PWC rescue - along with Tess (GSD) and Zeke (PWC) with Angel wings
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Member Posts: 454 |
by the way in our experience it was definetely worse when we first started the enzymes (he was throwing up about a 1/4 cup of brown water in the middle of the night and vurping up little spurts all day...but it has slowly gotten much better over time... things that helped us were: 1) pepcid - (regular strength human grade pepcid 10mg tabs, started giving 5mg 1/2 hour before each meal, now we are down to 2.5 mg = 1/4 tab one half hour before each of his two main meals) 2) adding a small enzymed meal just before bedtime so the empty stomach acid mixed with the irritating enzymes didn't cause gas bubbles in the night that caused him to vurp in the middle of the night. This technique worked IMMEDIATELY! 3) raising flat water dish , leaving flat food bowl on floor. (using flat piepan like bowls) 4) we do not free drink Kona (we don't leave water bowl out all day) so we can monitor his water intake...he started drinking more with the enzymes and i think he drank too fast and would then burp it up. we have had him on Tylan the whole time. you could try some of these and see if they work...just my suggestion. | |
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-- My name is Cat. My boyfriend Justin and I are owned by an adorable 1 year old puppy dog named Kona. He is my first dog and we adopted him at 2 months old from the ASPCA. Kona was dx'd 11/15/2010 @ 7months old with cTLI <0.4(EPI), B12= 723 (normal), Folate =20.7 (High). Original weight at diagnosis was 26.8 lbs. Re-test in March cTLI <0.4 (SURPRISE, still EPI), B12=653 (normal), Folate=14 (normal). (this was after major relapse) Feeding schedule - 3/4 cup Taste of the Wild High Prairie dry kibble (bison, venison, sweet potato) in AM and PM with 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin, and 3/4 tspn+1/8tspn 6x EU enzymes from enzymediane.com...midday snack 1/2 cup of TOTW High Prairie +1/2 teaspoon pumpkin and 1/2+1/8 teaspoons of enzyme....bedtime snack 1/4 cup TOTW HP + 1/2 tspn pumpkin + 1/4+1/8 teasoon enzyme. All are incubated for 20 minutes with warm water and stirred multiple times. Antibiotics - approaching our sixth month on these. has doneboth Tylan and Metro. Currently trying to phase out the Tylan giving <1/8 teaspoon in vegetarian capsule with am and pm meals. Probiotics - add 1 acidophilis capsule sprinkled over midday snack and mixed in Current weight 40 lbs!
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Member Posts: 919 |
I agree acid reflux could be a problem...but I also wonder about the amount of food. 8 cups just seems like a lot of food, especially for Blue's size. What is Blue's current weight and what is the goal weight? I know every dog is different but I don't think we exceeded 6 cups a day when we first were dx with epi. Right now the pups get about 1 1/2 to 2 cups of kibble twice a day with about 4 to 5 oz of cooked chicken with each meal...and our dogs are about 80 lbs. He may be throwing up because it is too much food. Maybe make the last meal before bed a much lighter meal...maybe a cup and see if that helps. | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 149 |
I know 8 cups is alot. I agree. We took away two othercups (she was getting 10) about a month ago. I was just trying to get her to fatten up a bit before adjusting the amount again. As of now she is 60 pounds even. She is up from 54.5 on December 22nd. Her ideal weight is 60 -70 pounds so I wanted to get her to 70 and 'buy time' incase of a set back. But I do think I will cut back to one cup on her bedtime meal and try the pepcid. She is soooo happy and playful and her coat/skin is awesome. We were just saying last night that she is only two and we probably never saw her at her full weight/potential. We are impressed.
Thanks for the help. By the way...her water bowl is raised...only because it's the toilet! GROSS! We also keep a regualr dog bowl with water but for the life of us she will only drink from the toilet. She weird! | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 919 |
The theory on why dogs like toilet bowl water is that the water is refreshed when it is flushed, the porcelain of the bowl keeps it cooler...however there is always the risk of the chemicals used to clean the bowl could be a little toxic to the dog. Most dogs, including ours, will occasionally drink from a toilet bowl, but there my be a higer risk if it is the primary source. You may want to get a fountain bowl for Blue's water (the ones with the pumps that recirculate the water; there are ones made out of porcelain now too) and keep the toilet seat top down so Blue can't get into it and have her drink primarily from a water bowl. | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 517 |
Our animals LOVE the fountain. We're on our second one. The first we went through 2 pumps in a year. Our first was a Petmate freshflow, now we have the Drinkwell and it's lasted much longer. We got it mainly for our cat because we were worried about UTIs and we would catch him in the bathtub drinking the dripping water from the spout or getting up to the kitchen sink. But Rosina loves the fresh flowing water too and my parents' dog stayed with us for a few days and it took him two seconds to find the bowl and start drinking without hesitation. I also like the idea that it filters gunk out too. The cat doesn't wipe his mouth after eating and gets food bits in the water bowl. I'm very glad mine aren't big enough to reach the inside of a toilet bowl! Now that she's absorbing food, she will gain weight, but some dogs don't gain as quickly as they lose. I know the waiting is difficult, but she sounds like she's doing great amd improving. Try to be patient. This is probably one of the hardest lessons to learn for some people. It was for me! As long as you are seeing steady improvement and weight gain, you're on the right track. I think she'll still be getting the nutrition and gain weight even if you cut back a little on the food. You're doing a fantastic job!! | |
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-- Pamela and Rosina; 9 yr old LH Chihuahua Mix; dx'd 10/26/10; Currently 2.5 lbs overweight at 22.5 lbs. Free fed in AM and PM on 3/8 cup Wellness Core Chicken, Turkey Liver, and Chicken Liver Dry and 2 tbsp Wellness Core Chicken, Turkey Liver, and Chicken Liver canned, 1 tsp pumpkin (sometimes add 2 tbsp greenbeans when she needs more food because of increased appetite from the Temaril) and 1/2 tsp Diane's 8X granulated enzymes; 1 tbsp Wellness 95% Chicken or Turkey and 1/16 tsp 8X enzymes incubated and mixed with 1/16 tsp Tylan in the AM. Taking Temaril occasionally for allergies and Metacam 1X most days for leg pain.
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Site Owner Posts: 7645 |
hi angie- how is blue doing today... any better? | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 149 |
She's doing so so. I reduced her night time feeding by a cup and she hasn't had any puke burps in the night since. But during the day we're at the same. I'm still in the process of switching her food so once we are 100% on Barking at the Moon I'll see what happens. Thanks for asking!!! | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 919 |
Does she do any burping, urping or vurping, pukes during the day? If so, you might want to cut back a little at the other meals....maybe 1 3/4 cup for the other 3 meals and the 1 cup for her last meal (4 meals total a day?) so she would still be getting 6.25 cups a day. Also in terms of food...some foods have higher calorie/nutrition per kibble/cut....so less can be more depending on the food. | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 4186 |
Hi Angie,
Have you tried Pepcid AC, or its generic equivilent? | |
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-- Donna
Owned by Tara, a 8 YO GSD w/EPI and DM dx'd at about a year old. Fed Taste of the Wild Lamb formular kibble and enhance this diet with cooked meat, veggies and fruit, Enzymes: Pancreatin 8x - 1 tsp per cup of food. Suppliments include 1000 mg Wild Salmon oil, Glucosomine/Chondrotin/MSM and Probiotic acidophilus. Stable since 2005 Also owned by sidekicks' Zoey my rescued GSD and Max, a 10 MO PWC rescue - along with Tess (GSD) and Zeke (PWC) with Angel wings
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Member Posts: 149 |
Good Morning! I haven't tried the pepcid yet but I will if she doesn't improve during the day on a lighter menu. I cut backl the evening meal by a cup and I was thinking of doing a morning meal of 2 cups, then 4-5 hrs later doing 1 cup, then 4-5 hrs later doing 1 1/2 cups, then her bedtime meal of 1 cup. I know the Barking at the Moon is a higher calorie food so I think because she's gained weight so nicely I can cut back a bit. I love her fat! | |
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-- Angie
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Member Posts: 3926 |
A fat pup is a happy pup! LOL...well, you know what I mean... | |
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-- Michele "No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich" - having 2 makes you even richer! :-)Jackie (back in pic) Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Stable and happy 115 lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5) Natures Domain, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 1tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am. Stable and happy 95 lbs 8/15/11You must login to post.
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