EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
managing EPI
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Member Posts: 1 |
Please help!
Our dog was recently diagnosed with EPI and treating her the enzyme supplements through our vets has been extremely expensive. She needs the enzymes, but we cannot afford to continue spending the extremely high costs incurred obtaining the necessary treatments through our vets.
She has been so sick and has had a terrible time for over the past year. We want to do everything we can for her but need some cost saving alternatives.. | |
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Member Posts: 919 |
Welcome to you both! Glad you have found us. There are lots of people here happy to share their experiences and ideas. A lot of people here obtain their enymes through www.enzymediane.com. They are the generic form of the enzymes the vets give you at a fraction of the cost. If you have questions about using them, which, how much, etc., people will be happy to answer your questions. Most people start with 1 tsp. per 1 cup of food. This should bring the cost down to a very reasonable amount. Would you be willing to share more info about your pup? Are you having to treat low B12 and/or SIBO also? What kind of food are you feeding? Is she stable yet? Again, welcome! | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 4186 |
Hi Beth and welcome to you and your pup. I can certainly understand where you are coming from...My vet handed me a $115 bottle of Viokase (that was several years ago too!) and it only lasted about a week! I was horrified as to how I was going to pay for it!!! Fortunately, I found out early on about generics and yes, we've been using Pancreatin from the link about that Terry sent you for many years and with excellent sucess!!! Please do tell us more about what's going on...It is indeed so very stressful in the beginning, but it does get easier!! Trust me! | |
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-- Donna
Owned by Tara, a 8 YO GSD w/EPI and DM dx'd at about a year old. Fed Taste of the Wild Lamb formular kibble and enhance this diet with cooked meat, veggies and fruit, Enzymes: Pancreatin 8x - 1 tsp per cup of food. Suppliments include 1000 mg Wild Salmon oil, Glucosomine/Chondrotin/MSM and Probiotic acidophilus. Stable since 2005 Also owned by sidekicks' Zoey my rescued GSD and Max, a 10 MO PWC rescue - along with Tess (GSD) and Zeke (PWC) with Angel wings
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Member Posts: 3926 |
Hi Beth - Terry gave you the #1 cost saver - getting the enzymes from Diane. Others have also gotten their Tylan on line at a cost savings - I believe they said through Amazon. I am so sorry to hear you have had a rough year. Finding this site is def a step in the right direction - as many will attest to - me being one of them. Please let us know exactly what is happening with your pup, what you are feeding her and what meds she is on - then you can be given the best advice for your specific situation. Welcome and hang in there - you will be amazed at what info you will receive...I still am - after a year - I am blown away at the loving support you receive here... | |
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-- Michele "No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich" - having 2 makes you even richer! :-)Jackie (back in pic) Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Stable and happy 115 lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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Member Posts: 142 |
Hi Beth You will get the best information and the fastest most helpful supportive replies from all the people on this website. I still cannot thank them all enough
I have a question as well - I have been thinking about switching (or should I say trying) The Enzymes from enzyme Diane....I am living in Canada - there seems to be a few different choices - How do I know which one to choose? SInce October of 2009 Lucy has been using the Viokas tablets (1 per 1 cup of food) I know all EPI Dogs are different but I am not sure this is the best for her as she has only gone up to 58lbs after all this time, and can still have the loose poop and still seems to be in starving mode I am not sure how much she would eat if given them chance to eat so much. Please let me know what your thoughts are My Vet said she is at a good weight considering but I just know there can be more ? | |
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-- Lucy, owned by Alley is a GSD Cross. She was diagnosed October 2009, TLI 1.3, Cobalamin Foltate 25, B12 low, on Moderate Calorie Gastro Diet 2 times a day with Viokase Enzyme Pills. Loves running around, play fighting with her best friend Buddy and chasing after our two black cats.
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Member Posts: 919 |
Hi Alley, Given she has not gained the weight you want and still has loose poops at times I was wondering if you are giving B12 shots? Sounds like B12 may be needed and possible a bit more of the tablets. Also while trying to put weight on we recommend 150% of normal food amounts. What is your goal weight? | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Member Posts: 142 |
HI Terry Her B12 was low when last tested perhaps I could mention the B12 shots to my vet. I could make a change of adding 1 more pill to her food - Can anything happen from excessiveness there? Our goal weight for lucy is about 60lbs which is the most she has ever weighed even prior to the diganosis of EPI. She isnt a HUGE dog stature wise and that weight looked healthy on her. Thanks Terry! | |
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-- Lucy, owned by Alley is a GSD Cross. She was diagnosed October 2009, TLI 1.3, Cobalamin Foltate 25, B12 low, on Moderate Calorie Gastro Diet 2 times a day with Viokase Enzyme Pills. Loves running around, play fighting with her best friend Buddy and chasing after our two black cats.
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Member Posts: 2548 |
Hello Beth, Welcome to you and Chloe Rose! I see in your profile that she is a Newfoundland. Being a large breed and having a hard time properly absorbing her food I can imagine she is eating you out of house and home! Please do check into saving $$$ on her enzymes by ordering via www.enzymediane.com. Is she currently on any antibiotics for SIBO (small intestine bacteria overgrowth)? Or B12 shots for low B12? Both these conditions frequently need to be treated with an EPI dog and if not it hampers improvement. The other biggie is finding the right food for the individual pup... many EPI dogs do best on a grain free diet. Taste of the Wild kibble is one that has been a good starting point for many of the pups here on the Forum and it is slightly less expensive than some of the other grain free kibbles. Please do let us know what you have already tried with Chloe Rose and we will try to help make this journey easier for you and her. | |
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-- ~Becky~
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Member Posts: 919 |
Hi Alley, It has been found the dogs with epi need to have their B12 numbers in the higher range....some vets won't give shots if they are low normal, but usually a dog with low normal or even in the lower mid-range will benefit from B12 shots. Sounds like it would be a good idea to try that and see if that helps. | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 (dx December 2009) and his older half sister,Taiko born Sept. 2006 (dx June 2010). Pharaoh was 62.4 lbs. when diagnosed in 12/2009 and 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6 and 82.5 lbs on 1/28/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis) and on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 1/28/12 was 84 (2 lbs. over vet's max weight for her). B12 was 211 in June 2010 and 293 on 8/10/10 (after getting weekly shots). Both pups receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day Costco grain free brand: 2 cups kibble in the morning with 4 crushed tblets and 2 1/2 cups evening with 4 1/2 crushed tablets; plus each meal also get cooked ground turkey (app 1/4 lb. each meal) or half a can of dog food.
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Site Owner Posts: 7645 |
Hello Beth and welcome to you and Chloe Rose. Please do check in on the generic enzymes from Enzyme Diane. It will only cost you approximately 1/3 of what you are paying for enzymes from the vet. Since Chloe is a Newfie.... i suggest going with the Pancreatin 8x..it will be more exconomical than the 6x for an big dog. If you can please do let us know a little more, like if CHloe has gas, tummy grumbling..sshe been treated for SIBO... has her B12 been shecked and if she neede to be treated for this also..... EPI dogs have a 95% chance of a great recovery... some dogs bounce back right away... others take longer. The trick is treating the "whole" dog.... not just one facet of EPI. Looking forward to hearing more from you. | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Site Owner Posts: 7645 |
HI Alley~ If Lucy had low B12 when last tested... then she most definitely needs the B12 shots..... it doesn't get better... only worse unless treated......... Regarding the enzymes from Enzyme Diane http://www.enzymediane.com/ I personally use the 6x. Most people use 6x unless they have a big dog... or because they prefer to use it and just give a little less than what they would with the 6x. It really doesn't matter if you get the powder or the granular.... they both work the same. I think it depends on what you get used to = which one you prefer. Keep us posted! | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 992 |
Hi Beth and welcome to the Forum. We do enzymes from Diane as well and it's so much less expensive. Alley, we're in Ontario too and started off on viokase tabs, 8's and 16's whichever we could find; it was hard for us to secure a consistent supply. I don't know how big Lucy is but Cedar weighed about 60 lbs when she was diagnosed (usual wt about 70) and she needed 7 Viokase 8 or 3 1/2 Viokase 16 tabs crushed with each meal (1.5 cup kibble and 1/2 c add in). I cost me as much in a bit less than 2 weeks as it does now for 3 months of enzyme powder from Diane. | |
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- Barb -
Mom to Cedar, diagnosed with EPI Nov 1, 2010, TLI 1.2, April 2011 B12 310 (150-700), Folate 31 (7-39); Dec 2011 B12 349 (150-700), Folate 18 (7-39); now on B12 injections weekly; 1 3/4 tsp pancreatin 8X/meal, 1 1/4 c Evo Red Meat Grain free + 1/2 c add ins (pork, salmon, sardines, haddock, egg, pumpkin are the usual), 1/3 c water, incubated x 30 minutes; 2 meals/day; current weight 69.9 lbs. Also has Pannus; treated with tacrolimus ointment 2 x daily each eye and gets 100 ug Vit E daily for immature cataracts. Also Mom to pupkids Bree and Griffin, and catkids Abby, Diamond and Max...and skinkid Ayden
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At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5) Natures Domain, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 1tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am. Stable and happy 95 lbs 8/15/11You must login to post.
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