EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

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Forum Home > General Discussion > Diane's Pancreatin and switching over

Star's Mom
Member
Posts: 375

I just ordered my first Pancreatin from Enzyme Diane.   I am in a bit of a quandry about how much of Diane's enzyme I should give in comparison to what I give now.

 Bear with me, I know this sounds confusing....

 

  I was using Source Naturals 8X, which had the values of 200,000 Protease and Amylase and 36,000 Lipase on the bottle....I was giving 5 capsules (broken open and sprinkled on food).  Star's poop was mostly ok at this dose, sometimes a bit soft but not all the time.  The Source Naturals became unavailable, so the past 3 months I was buying another brand from the health store with the values of 50,000 Amylase and Protease and 9,000 Lipase.....so I had  to up the number of capsules X4....I was giving 20 capsules (expensive!!!) per cup of food.   I was just re-reading the labels on both bottles..... and realized that the serving size for the Source Naturals was 2 capsules and the values on the bottle were for 2 capsules.   So, in essence I have accidently DOUBLED the dose of enzymes I was giving when I changed brands.    Funny thing is, Star's poop looks great on this super high dose.........

I would think that if the current dose was too high, her poops would have gone to hell with too much pancreatin.  So, I am not sure what dose to start at when Diane's enzymes get here. 

And just when I thought I had it mostly figured out.......ha ha......no wonder the pancreatin was costing me an arm and a leg with my error!  But not sure now if it was an error or really what Star should have been on......thoughts please?

Lisa

October 5, 2011 at 5:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alyssa
Member
Posts: 916

Hi!  If it helps, I have a 90lb dog and I give a little less than 1 tsp for 2 cups of food on the Pancreatin 8x.  Usually the rule of thumb is to start out with 1 tsp per 1 cup of food, so you may want to start with that and then raise or lower as you go until you get those perfect poops.


Also, it helped me alot to just give Vito his own spoon for dosing enzymes and keep it with the enzymes, that way I never have to fumble for it and I always know it's clean and ready to use and doesn't have residue or anything on it that might hurt him.

--

Proud mommy to Vito, 3(?) yr old GSD.  90lbs, goal weight 85-90lbs (ACHIEVED!).  Tested positive for EPI on March 30th, 2011.  His TLI was 1.0, Cobalamin 225, Folate 22.  Feeding 3 ups of Taste of the Wild High Prairie once a day with one heaping teaspoon of Pancreatin 8x enzymes per meal.

Also proud mommy of a (non EPI) Belgian Malinois tripod named Lizzie.  That means three legs. :P  Who is completely spoiled rotten, loves kids, and will be going into therapy dog training as soon as I can afford it.

"Sometimes it takes an imperfection to create perfection."

October 5, 2011 at 6:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 2778

Lisa, what strength of Pancreatin did you order from Diane, 8X or 6X?


Barb

October 5, 2011 at 7:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Blaze
Member
Posts: 19

Another new to Diane's Pancreatin user here too.

Got my first order ( 6x ) Monday and started it then. Had previously got ok poops on the vets prescription enzymes but hadn't found the magic mix amount.

I just went ahead and started Mon morning with the recommended 1tsp/cup food. By next morning (Tues) it seemed poops were a little stinker and slightly softer. Too much or Too little Pancreatin ? I guessed too much so reduced it to 3/4 tsp/cup.

This morning (Wed) poops firmer and less stinky. Decided to see what a little less would do so switched to 1/2 tsp/cup. Tonights poop - she almost seemed constipated ! Very firm and normal looking :)

Blaze has a couple of health issues and is on lots of medications. Currently eating 3 cups Natural Choice venison & sweet potato 4 times a day so we've really been going through the enzymes !!! So glad to be able to reduce the dose and save some $$$.

Every dog is different. Keep a note book of what your feeding, when and with how much enzyme added. Don't forget to make detailed poop notes ;) it really does help a few days later when you're still tweeking the dose and are trying to remember what 'type' of poops was produced when.

I'm still very new at this and I'm sure the more experienced members will share their thoughts and recommendations.

Just wanted to share my "newbie" experience.

 

Jenny

October 5, 2011 at 8:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Star's Mom
Member
Posts: 375
Hi Barb, I ordered the 6x from Diane. The way I figured it, I went from giving about 500,000 protease/amylase to 1,000,000! Accidently of course, since I did not notice the values listed on the Source Naturals were for 2 capsules not one. And no change in the appearance of the poop.....that is what baffles me.
October 5, 2011 at 8:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

epi4dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 12987

Hi Lisa ~

When you get the 6x in... start with 1 level teaspoon per 1 cup of kibble (or 3/4 tsp per 1 cup wet food) each dog may differ... but start with the recommended dose... also.... when comparing the enzymes and trying to figure out the dose mystery of lipase, amylase and protease strengths to another product's strenghs...the enzyme you want to use as your priority benchmark value is the lipase value.

I also do what ALyssa does... my EPI gal, Izzy, has her own enzyme measuring spoon tucked in with her enzymes.;)

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy-35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 8 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She was getting Annamaet Lean kibble plus a lean meat and did well on it....... but we have since switched again because of her diabetes to an all home-made diet which she does even better on and has even been able to reduce the Vetsulin (por-based insulin) dose from 9 units to 6 units... because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia- -she is much more even keeled with a diet of sweet potato+ a lean meat+coconut oil/fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!


October 5, 2011 at 8:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Barb
Member
Posts: 2778

Hi Lisa,

It looks like you are going to have to do trial and error......Using 6X, I started with 1 tsp per cup of food and this is usually what is recommended.  You can start there and see if you need a little more.  If you find that you are using quite a bit more, you might want to go to the 8X.  

But as you can tell from Jenny's post, some dogs take less instead of more....sigh....the joys of EPI.


Barb

October 5, 2011 at 9:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Star's Mom
Member
Posts: 375
Thanks Olesia for the info about using the lipase as the benchmark number, that is helpful. I will have to definately start a log when I get Diane's enzymes, as it looks like I will be starting from scratch. I can't belive I got the dosage as fouled up as i did.....guess next time more attention to the small print! What I can't figure out is why Star's poop is still so good.....I would have thought that giving way too much enzyme would have created havoc. I am pretty sure that she needed a bit more with her getting older, so I could understand doing better with a LITTLE more......but double??? That is what is confusing me about how much I really should be giving. The downside is that I probably spent WAY more on enzymes than I needed to, but the up side is that my mess up hasn't seemed to cause a problem for Star, as she is maintaining weight and poops are good. Lisa
October 5, 2011 at 10:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Blaze
Member
Posts: 19

Hi Lisa,

Some dogs do need more enzymes than the 'standard' dosing. So maybe you just happened to get it right for Star despite the sudden apparently different dosing :)

Will be nice to see how she does on the 6x.

Definately keep a log. It'll help you a bunch.

Jenny

October 5, 2011 at 10:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Frank Dajnowicz
Member
Posts: 414

A word of advice on the dosing of enzymes.  Make your changes slow. What goes in today can take as long as 3 days to see the outcome. Make your changes every 3-4 days, make only ONE change in that time frame and keep a log on everything that goes in.  Also, too much enzymes will have the same reaction as too little enzymes.  It's a little confusing but if you make small changes, you will see when you are going in the right direction.

Frank

October 6, 2011 at 10:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Star's Mom
Member
Posts: 375

Yeah!  My enzymes arrived today.....let the experimentation begin!  I took some time and really went over all the numbers from the old enzymes, # of capsules  V.S. Diane's enzymes.   It looks like 6 capsules equals a teaspoon and values are about equal to Diane's 8X.  I ordered the 6X, so I will have to make some adjustments there.  I am lucky, Star seems to tolerate mild variations pretty well....I usually don't have to be spot on with everything for her to be doing OK. 

Lisa

October 7, 2011 at 3:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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