EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Still getting the hang of this forum and posting but caught this thread cos we're in a similar situation with our labbie, Jethro (age 4&1/2) being diagnosed a couple of weeks ago with EPI.

It has been very reassuring to see so many supportive parents here. Jethro has only just been started on the enzyme and so we're hoping to see some response soon.

Jethro was diagnosed with arhtritis of his hip joints over a year ago and we put him on a rigorous diet and exercise to lose weight. Imagine our shock when we returned from a trip overseas to see him a skinny, bony lab.

we wonder now whether the weight loss was an early sign of his EPI. He has gone from being 42 kilos in Aug2010 to 36 kilos in mid 2011 to 24 kilos now.

One thing we are still unsure about though is that he seems to have a lot of trouble bearing weight on his left hind leg and seems in pain. The vet thinks its secondary to muscle wasting and therefore his joints being further compromised. Not sure, but poor baby can hardly walk more than a few steps. And this is a dog who loved his 'walkies' and couldnt have enough of them.

Would like to hear from anybody who might have had similar problems with their pets or might have a clue as to what we can do.

Apart from that, it has been so reassuring to hear from people who have had similar expereinces

Hi

Picked you up on maxwels thread.

If you come back on could you kindly give us some information as to what  you are

feeding and what current treatment you are giving your dog are you using Metro antibotic as sometimes side effects can be caused through this. 

So as much info please.

Ann

Hi Jethro's human and welcome to our EPI family... i see Ann posted for you. Looking forward to hearing more details like specifically what is the name of the enzymes you are giving? What kind of food and how is it being prepared with the enzymes, Has Jethro been given any antibiotics for SIBO? and is he receiving B12 shots? and last but not least, when he was tested for EPI, did they also run a B12 test?

Hello and Welcome to the Forum - One of the Forum members, Craig with Miss Lulupants, has put together tons of good information to help those with EPI dogs in Australia.... here is a link to the Downloads page... scroll halfway down the page and you should see the info

http://www.epi4dogs.com/downloads.htm

Are you using Creon?  Seems many vets in Australia recommend Enzyplex and it is not strong enough for an EPI pup.... they need a stronger replacement enzyme and the only one available in Oz is Creon.

Welcome to the Forum.  Our EPI girl Cedar experienced lameness in her back end right before she was diagnosed.  She actually had her EPI tests and some hip xrays done the same day because we were so concerned that she had injured herself.  The lameness went away shortly after we began her EPI treatment.  Cedar was 3 when she was diagnosed in Nov 2010; she's strong as a horse now!

Hello and welcome to the forum.   I'm so sorry Jethro has so much going on for a 41/2 yr old.    Please do let us know a little more about him so we can best help.

maddie ann at January 29, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Hi

Picked you up on maxwels thread.

If you come back on could you kindly give us some information as to what  you are

feeding and what current treatment you are giving your dog are you using Metro antibotic as sometimes side effects can be caused through this. 

So as much info please.

Ann

 

Hi,

Thanks for putting me on the right thread.

Jethro is on Hillscience diet for intestinal disease ( i think) and on Creon caps BD.

he is on doxycline as antibiotic.

He did not have b12 levels but the vet is aware and said once he is slightly stabilised with wt, he would check this.

Thanks for the oz link. its really helpful.

Anj

Anj at January 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM

maddie ann at January 29, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Hi

Picked you up on maxwels thread.

If you come back on could you kindly give us some information as to what  you are

feeding and what current treatment you are giving your dog are you using Metro antibotic as sometimes side effects can be caused through this. 

So as much info please.

Ann

 

Hi,

Thanks for putting me on the right thread.

Jethro is on Hillscience diet for intestinal disease ( i think) and on Creon caps BD.

he is on doxycline as antibiotic.

He did not have b12 levels but the vet is aware and said once he is slightly stabilised with wt, he would check this.

Thanks for the oz link. its really helpful.

 

Anj

 

Hi  Anj

I note from your post that you are using Hill Science can you check which one most of theses apart from Z/d contain grain and please note rice is included under this most of these dogs do better on grain free .

B12 this is really important and a lot of the Vets miss this i would suggest that you get this test run this could be leading to weakness in the back legs

on fact i would get the test booked in and whike you are there get him a B!2

jab.

Is he on any other medication for anything else.

Also can you tell us the dose of creon and teh strenghth.

Ann

Hi, Just popped in here & saw that you (sorry, don't know your name) & Jethro are new here. A very warm welcome to our EPI forum. I am also from Australia. We are from Melbourne, where are you?????

Please let us know more about Jethro. What enzymes you are using, diet he is on etc. There are so many wonderful & very knowledgeable people here that will help you every step of the way.

As Becky mentioned, one of our very dear members here, Craig, (he's from South Australia & will definately pop in here very soon) has put together some fantastic info. in our files. Check it out. It will help a lot. Also, I see that Jethro is on Creon capsules? That is really good as lots of Aussie vets just prescribe Enzyplex powder which is only a supplement, not a replacement & will definately not work on it's own. What strength of Creon are you using? I know this is all very overwhelming at first but with the help of everyone here, you & Jethro will get through this.

Good luck & we will look forward to hearing more about Jethro & please feel free to post some pics. of him here also. Can be a bit tricky at first, but instructions are in our files also. If you get stuck, let us know.

Again welcome. Pleased you have found us.

Hello and welcome to you and Jethro! Glad you've been pointed in the direction of the Oz brochure as it saves all of us doing so much typing!    Seriously, please do pop back with as much information on dosages, test results etc etc as you can as this gives those with experience the best possible chance of giving you informed advice. EPI is managable! so don't let it spook you (although it spooked me at the time). Best thing to do right now is to begin a journal in order to track Jethro's condition and treatment and the changes to both, it'll be really useful for you and your vet to jot things down each day. Clcik on the Downloads section above or the link in the Oz brochure to download an EPI log template.

Hope to hear from you as soon as you're able to get back on the forum...

Hi all,

Thanks for all the help. We got Jethro tothe vet today and got him his B12 inections.

He is on Hill's I/d diet. Don't know bout the z/d diet. Willl look for the other brands recommended cos looks like the i/d one has rice and corn in it.

He is on Creon10,000 which is being increased to 2bd from today.

I tried to download the log cos it looks really helpful and I think in all our anxiety we probably are not going to be able to keep it all in our heads:(. Not sure how to download an electroinc copy. Any help?

Jethro is still struggling to walk, seems to be in pain. But on the bright side, he enjoys our company and has a wag in his tail when we call his name, talk to him or give him cuddles (which he is getting lots of, poor love)

it is a spooky thing, Craig, I agree but luckily hearing from all of you is very heartening.

ANd thanks, Lynn too for your kind post. We are in Newcastle but Jethro is a Tamworth boy ,born and bred (literally!)

Hoping to hear from al of you again soon.

Willpost Jethro's progress.

Anj

Hi Anj, Yes, please keep in touch. We are all here to help you & Jethro & he will get through this. So overwhelming at first. You are on the right track though, with the B12 injections & the Creon so you should be noticing a big difference very soon. Like Craig said, EPI is manageable & yes, it does & did spook us all at first but there is now somewhere to turn for help & this is the best group ever for that.

Look forward to hearing how Jethro is in the next day or so.

hello hun

we are here to help so any questions please

this is dooable if you cant deal with the log buy a decent size diary and record anything and everything

you will likely need grain free food al the prescription dog foods have grain in them

good luck

jxxxx 

Hi Anj

http://www.epi4dogs.com/EPI%20Dog%20Log2.pdf

I am not technically minded but it looks like the log requires you to have ADOBE on your computer as it is in a PDF format you can download ADOBE

Otherwise you can set up an excel sheet and use the same heading etc.

Craig Knows all about the grain free food available.

My comment about the Z/d is this is toleated by most EPI dogs but normally is used when IBD is going on as well i would suggest you wait for craig to update you.

Ann

If you can read the Oz EPI Management doc you'll be fine with the link Ann posted.. That also has a section on grain free foods available in Oz and links to online retailers. For Canidae there's a list of pet store stockists at the link below where you might be able to get sample bags or smaller bags to try

http://www.canidae.com.au/stockists

We have a member from Tamworth, the lovely Taya, not sure about any Novacastrians. You'll be a trailblazer!

...Oh, and just wanted to check that Jethro is getting the Creon before or with each meal. You've written his dosage as BD and now 2BD which is doctor shorthand for twice per day but the per day thing has to correspond with mealtimes not literally just given twice per day like we might give another med. Sounds kinda obvious but I never assume and folk do ask if enzymes have to be given with every meal (and that answer is yes)...

And once you find Jethro's right dosage level to get him stabilised (and it's a trial and error thing which is where the EPI log becomes really useful) if it's up around the 20 000 level (ie two caps per meal) then there's a stronger Creon (Creon 25 000) which is a prescription issue (your vet can write this) but which might be a saving for your hip pocket. But cross that when you come to it, it's all in the brochure...

Welcome to you & Jethro from Texas. Will not offer advice as the Aussies are taking good care of you but wanted to offer a note of encouragement.

My girl Addie was diagnosed last August. With some excellent advice from folks on this forum, and my vet cooperating, Addie did really well & has gained all (and then some) of her weight back & is doing great. 

Just be sure and address the Big 4: Enzymes, Food, B-12 & SIBO.

Again welcome- good luck & will look forward to hearing about Jethro's progress! 

Thanks all!

We were very happy to see Jethro is more active today and has been able to weight bear more easily and looks a lot less lethargic. From the advice I got here, i really believe it's the B12 as he got that yesterday. Thank you so much for that! It's so good to see him pick up in his spirits now that he can walk a little more.

yes, he is on 2 caps twice a day but I had noted that it had to be given with food so we dont give him anything at any time he's not had his creon.

Thanks for the advice about the food. will order from one of the links.

Anj

Thanks all!

We were very happy to see Jethro is more active today and has been able to weight bear more easily and looks a lot less lethargic. From the advice I got here, i really believe it's the B12 as he got that yesterday. Thank you so much for that! It's so good to see him pick up in his spirits now that he can walk a little more.

yes, he is on 2 caps twice a day but I had noted that it had to be given with food so we dont give him anything at any time he's not had his creon.

Thanks for the advice about the food. will order from one of the links.

Anj

Excellent. Let us know how you go and what food does/doesn't work. Does he take his capsules like a good boy or do you need to coat them in some sort of yumminess before they go down the hatch?