EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
managing EPI
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Member Posts: 2 |
Hi There!
Brought home Kiya, shepherd cross, from the pound a couple weeks ago. Long story short, our vet believes Kiya suffers from EPI. She shows several symptoms but we have not had her tested as yet.
Kiya is already in school, more for me than her, and treats are used as a form of praise. Is there anything, even homemade, that Kiya would love to 'work' for? Her kibble ain't cutting it and the thought of using her wet foot is....well, kind of gross. 
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance for your help.
Seragilo
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Member Posts: 1620 |
Hi and Welcome to you and Kiya, can you give us alittle more info?? Food , enzymes, etc. . i know there is a biscut receipe some use....but I can't find it!!! How old is Kiya? Bless you for rescuing Kiya.... if it is EPI, it can be overwhelming in the beginning..but it is doable !! | |
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-- Dar and Kodi, From Washington state Kodi (GSD female) , born August 19, 2010 , was diagnosed July 15, 2011 at 11 months .Lowest weight, 47 lbs, weight as of 4/27/2013 62.9 lbs. Our goal for her at this time is now 65 lbs. !!! . TLI .07 , Folate 9.4 , Cobalmin 536 . Kodi is on Great Life grain and potato free Buffalo,1 & 1/2 cups 3 times a day with 1 & 1/2 teaspoons of enzymes from Diane. 1 Trinfac-B capsule once a day. Also 1/8 t. of ground coriander, 1/16 t. of ground fennel seed and cinnamon per meal (for stomach acid and burps). Having acupunture with a holistic vet for pollen allergies, doing acupressure points and taking 1000 mg.Super Quercetin daily for allergies.
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Member Posts: 2 | Kiya is 12 weeks old. We have not done any tests as yet, the vet wants to try food geared for her first to see if the symptoms disappear first. Right now we are trying medi-cal gastrointestinal high energy food. Kiya has not been gaining weight, very bony sadly. She has issues going poop and always seems hungry.... The vet brought up EPI right away (Monday after shots/visit) and we are now working on diet restrictions. We have school tomorrow for Kiya and I, and I have no idea what is safe for her to eat. I am a reformed dog hater....and when I say 'hater' it's an understatement. It has taken me years to get past my fears, but when I realised that the ownership of a dogs behaviour rested solely in the hands of its 'leader' I saw them for what they were....darn adorable, loving creatures. This is all new to us, home of 3 spoiled cats....Hubby and I just want what's best for Kiya. | |
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Member Posts: 2080 |
Hello Thank you for rescuing Kiya. EPI is a about finding the right balance for your dog. The guidlines are Grain free food Enzymes B12 Antibotics if necessary But without the test you cannot be certain that your dog has EPI. Food itself will not cure the syptoms you have to have enzymes with everything and until you get your dog stable treats are a thing of the past for training you will need toys as a reward as well as praise. has your vet disecussed the test with you ???? Ann | |
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-- ANN (UK)
Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now 5 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2. B12 RETESTED 0N 21-05-2013 Value 902 after 15 months of daily piils Yipheeee Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs) Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/ Also omega3 and Vitamin E daily. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic
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Member Posts: 2780 |
Hello and Welcome to the Forum - Puppies can have soooooooooooo many reasons for digestive problems... many resembling EPI. I would continue to work closely with your vet to rule out the more common ones like parasites or food intolerences and then if no improvement is seen proceed to test for EPI. Since your vet currently has Kiya on a special diet you might check and see what your vet feels may be appropriate to use for training treats so as not to upset that diet trial. | |
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-- ~Becky~
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Site Owner Posts: 10067 |
Hi Kiya's mom and a very warm welcome to you, Kiya and your vet ;). I agree with Becky....and would like to take it one step further.... whatever we suggest here, please run it by your vet to make sure it will not mess up what he is trying to determine. 1. First ask him if it would be okay if you tried a little pancreatic enzymes on her food... for 3-5 days and see if you notice ANY change what so ever... what i recommend, although NOT sufficient enough to treat and EPI dog (if she does have EPI), but enough to show a slight difference in her elimination is to see if he would be okay with you getting Pancreatin 4x from the drug store and giving it to her with the "medi-cal gastrointestinal high energy food" with a squirt of water to make sure the enzymes are mixed in good. If you see a big change for the better.... be sure to tell your vet, even take before and after poo pics to show your vet... so he can see what is going on...and what seems to be working.... this will better help him and you diagnose Kiya. 2. Treats for training..... what i would do to stick with the path your vet has you on for the moment is take the "medi-cal gastrointestinal high energy food" if it is canned, add a touch of water... if it is dry, add water to make it mushy.... THEN get a little squeeze/squirt bottle of sorts (kind of like a small version of those plastic ketchup or mustard bottles they keep on the tables of the hamburger joints) put the mush in the bottle and squeeze a little in her mouth as a reward in training. My dog was in the middle of training too when she developed EPI.... it was hard to figure out what to do.... i finally was able to use a small tuggy rope as a reward (she and I would pull on it and she LOVED this) every time she did what she was supposed to. it actually got to where she loved this so much better than any food reward.... but in some situations it is hard to apply an activity as a reward. However, at 12 weeks old... i too feel it is very important to reiterate what Becky said, that as puppies, they can have so many other things that mimic EPI but is not EPI. But if it is EPI, Ann laid it out perfectly, how to approach treatment. Hope this helps a little and SOOooooooo glad to hear that you opened your heart to a dog, especially one that needed a home. I have a feeling that Kiya picked you cause she knew you would do the best for her | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 462 |
hi Saragilo I personally still don't understand treaat training. I have trained all (about 14) my dogs with love, phrase, pats and hugs.... something to think about...Ive seen people use a special toy like a tennis ball. Ive never had an overweight dog but I got this EPI dog I'll tell you about LOL | |
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-- Sharon and Hans; Hans is EPI and Lymes Positive, his birthday is 12/11/04 (GSD) His TLI was 1.0 on 10/17/08 When Diagnosed Down to .4 4/2/10. Weight 65 pounds on 12/08 now 95 pounds (Had him up to 104 in 2011) 1 1/2 cups Taste of the Wild Lamb, with very HOT water and soaked, then adding 1/2 pound Top Quaility Dog Food, boneless skinless turkey or Boneless skinless chicken breast.warmed in microwave for 15 to 20 seconds. 4 oz. Raw Pancreas not heated! Just warmed by sitting on counter while kibble soaked. All mixed together just before serving. All vits are OKed by vet. (Please note I don't not use powdered enzymes and the pancreas is added AFTER food and water has cooled)
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Member Posts: 1316 |
If we had realized how ball driven Pharaoh was it might have been an even better treat for him (the ball) then the food treats. So you may want to consider what Sharon has said and try something else that he really responds to. I think we gave too many treats to our pups before we realized they had epi. Since they have been stable with their epi we still give them their favorite treat (freeze dried liver) but not real often...and usually near a meal....so it really is a treat. They get a treat right after they get their B12 shot and that is usually right after breakfast once a week. We haven't had any problems with the treats given this way....but not sure how well that will work for obedience training. The one thing you could also try if food really is the only/best motivator is to take the classes near a meal time....feed a meal with the enzymes close to the time of the class so there would be some enzymes in his system. Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it works....this is a question that comes up fairly frequently. | |
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-- Terry Mom of two EPI Shiloh Shepherds: Pharaoh born Nov. 2007 and dx with epi December 2009. Pharaoh weighed 62.4 lbs. (15 lb. weight loss) when diagnosed in 12/2009. Weight 10/31/11 his weight was 76.6. 85lbs on 9/22/12. Received six weeks of B12 shots Jan-Feb 2010 but his B12 on 8/10/2010 was only 232. So started weekly shots at home, which we continue to give. His older half sister is Taiko born Sept. 2006 and was dx with epi June 2010. Since she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia she had always been on the thin side. Taiko's weight was 70.7 lbs. in June 2010 (time of diagnosis; about a 10 lb. weight loss. Weight on 10/31/11 was 80.4 and on 9/22/12 was 82.4 lbs. B12 was 211 in June 2010 so started six weeks of shots and was only 293 on 8/10/10. She receive B12 shots weekly at home. Both are fed twice a day and we use either Costco grain free brand or Merrick BG brand:2 1/2 cups kibble in the morning and 4 oz cooked meat (usually steak) with 4 crushed tablets and in the evening 2 cups kibble with 4 oz cooked meat with 4 crushed tablets.
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Member Posts: 914 |
Hello and welcome! It really depends on the dog, but we've found with Vito that small, grain-free treats (like thumbnail sized) work just fine and we don't even have a blip. BUT, every dog is different and some are more sensitive than others, so this might not work for you. I've been working on trying to get my hands on some raw pancreas that I can try drying into training treats, still looking for a decent supplier, but if I do, I'll let ya know. Til then, there's a recipe from Michele in here somewhere...AHA! | |
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-- Proud mommy to Vito, 3(?) yr old GSD. 90lbs, goal weight 85-90lbs (ACHIEVED!). Tested positive for EPI on March 30th, 2011. His TLI was 1.0, Cobalamin 225, Folate 22. Feeding 3 ups of Taste of the Wild High Prairie once a day with one heaping teaspoon of Pancreatin 8x enzymes per meal. Also proud mommy of a (non EPI) Belgian Malinois tripod named Lizzie. That means three legs. "Sometimes it takes an imperfection to create perfection."
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Who is completely spoiled rotten, loves kids, and will be going into therapy dog training as soon as I can afford it.You must login to post.
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