EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

I just started by 3 year old shiloh on the enzyme yesterday and she hates the taste and will not eat it. Any suggestions, she ran and hide when I put the bowl down for her.

Hi Sherri, welcome to the forum, but as we say sorry you even have to be here. This is a great site though with lots of caring members & great information.

Poor baby girl-she didn't know what to think with that new smell on her food!

First- are you soaking the food with the enzyme & warm ( but not hot) water? Most people incubate their food for at least 20 minutes-some up to 45, to prevent mouth/tongue sores.

The enzyme smell can just be a real turn-off for some dogs. Many people have to experiment with toppers on the food. Popular ones are parmesan cheese, green tripe, sardines, BBQ sauce-anything that will have a strong odor. One member even mentioned she is using a little dab of cool whip. whatever works for your dog. as we always say here- every dog is different so sometimes trial & error is the only way to see what works for your dog.

We would love more info about you & your Shiloh- what are you feeding, enzymes, lab results, and of course we love pictures! That way we can help more if we have a complete picture. 

Oh, Sherri, I remember it well!   We were so anxious to get enzymed food into Kolby so he didn't lose any more weight and so the loose stools would disappear.   When the enzymes finally arrived and we prepared them with the warm water and incubated them, then set them in front of Kolby, fully expecting him to gobble everything down.......he looked at us with such a look of contempt mixed with indignation and suspicion, as if we were trying to poison him.....then he put his nose in the air and walked off without touching a morsel.  

I thought my husband was going to have a heart attack.   We had just paid hundreds of dollars for the jar of enzymes (before we found enzyme Diane, our angel here) and now our dog was not going to touch them.

It took a while, but eventually, he came around.   At first, none of the toppers worked for us--he could still smell the enzymes and looked at us suspiciously.  We switched his bowl to a flat plate so he didn't have to put his muzzle into a deep bowl.   That helped.   We incubated the food for 45 minutes, so the enzymes weren't so strong.

We eventually put parmesan cheese on top of the food and that started to help. 

But really, I think he just had to get used to the smell and the texture of the food, and eventually he did.  Some dogs really are not bothered by the enzymes.  They gobble the food without even noticing.   Kolby was not one of them. 

Hang in there.  Try some of the toppers that Kelli mentioned.  And be patient.   Try to keep your tone light and cheerful.   We also realized that our anxiety had an effect on Kolby.   When we relaxed, he relaxed.  If he walked away from the food, we just said, "OK you can get it later."  He always came back.  

Don't despair.   It will get better.

Barb

ps.  I forgot to ask you if you have checked your pup's B12 levels.   If she has low B12, this will affect her appetite.  Are you giving her B12 injections or pills with Intrinsic Factor?

Barb

Welcome Sherri and your girl....So sorry you must be here,    Kodi didn't have a problem with eating, including an vaccuum cleaner cord, socks, rocks, sticks, enzymed food , anything !! Take a deep breath and try the topppers, and as Barb said.... keep you attitude relaxed. I know it's hard....... but it will get better!!

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Thanks for all of your advise. This is all very over whelming. After two vets and eight months later we finally know what has been wrong with Greta. I am using warm water for preparation of her food and waiting 20 minutes. I will trying waiting longer. She has never been a big eater and when the vet changed her diet to Hills I/D she ate even less. We were on a cycle of her refusing to eat, loud stomach gurgling and next day watery bloody poos, then she would feel better and eat better for a few days poo would get alittle more solid never firm and was yellow in color. Then back to her not eating and it all started over again like this for 8 months. the amazing think she is thin but never dropped a ton of weight. At the vet today for her b12 shot she weighed in a 75 pounds and she was 74.4 in the beginning of May. We are treating her with tylan now for the last two weeks, weekly b12 shots and just started the enzymes two days ago.. I am thankful to have found this site when I was checking out price comparisons for buying the enzymes and found Diane's web site. Thanks for all the good advise I tried the parmesan cheese this morning and she did eat, very slowly with alot of positive coaching. If she will not eat her entire meal at one time are the enzymes still active if she goes back and eats an hour or two later? I have so many questions as I start this journey. Thanks.....

Welcome Sherri,

It does very overwhelming at first....but it does eventually become routine...just in the beginning it is hard to think that.  Besides pups not likeing the smell and/or taste of the enzyme there is also the issue that for quite a while Greta didn't feel good and most likely it got associated with food.  So she is a bit suspicious and in her furry mind wondering if this meal will make her feel worse.  Once she starts to see eating doesn't make her feel bad she may be more willing to eat.  Also low B12 affects their appetite so until her levels come up that could also be a factor. 

Good news is she hasn't lost weight in over a month and even had a slight gain.  I think you will see more of that over time.  Each pup gains weight at different rates.  What is your goal weight for her?

As we say here, take a deep breath and please come onto the forum and ask any questions and keep us updated...we all get very concerned about the pups and their families!

I do feel for you... Razzy would eat anything, even a horse it came past.... and although it took a long time to get her stable and nearly a year to put her weight back because she was the queen of allergies... she was really good for several years then just decided she didn't like enzymed food....so the toppers came out.

It is so overwhelming at first but you will soon get used to out-thinking your girl.

There are so many good tips and info here so take a deep breath... breathe out slowly and pretend its all just OK. They really do pick up on our stress.

Val

And have a glass of plonk!

Welcome Sherri and Greta,

Stopping the weight loss is wonderful, you have already made progress. Kellie and Barb gave you some good ideas to tempt Greta to eat.  I would speak to your vet about the Tylan, two weeks is probably not going to be long enough, the suggested time is 6 weeks. The enzymes are still active, if it will be left down for too long you can always put it in the fridge and give it to her later. You might want to warm it up (not in the microwave) in a bowl of water. I feed right from the fridge with no problems (Ted's been stable for years) but it might make it a bit easier on Greta if you warm it.

Sherri, you are doing a great job with Greta.   It does feel very overwhelming at the beginning.   You are on a steep learning curve....there seems to be so much information to absorb and so many new things to be aware of.  Try to take one step at a time. 

  Keeping a daily log/journal really helped us.   We recorded everything we gave Kolby--food, enzymes, antibiotics and B12 , including the amounts or doses.  Then we kept track of what his poops looked like and his behavior.   It helped us to keep things straight and it showed us when things needed to be tweaked.   Something about writing it down and seeing it on paper gave us a lot of information that we would not have seen if we just tried to keep it all in our head.  It also helped us to see patterns of what was working and what wasn't so that we could ask questions here or at the vet's and make informed decisions. 

You can download a log form from the downloads tab at the top of the page, or just use a notebook.   I still have our notebook and if we have an issue, I start using it again. 

It is great that Greta has not lost a lot of weight......at least you have one less thing to worry about. 

Barb

Thanks for all the information. Greta did eat well over the weekend found that alittle tuna fish worked. This morning we were back to the noisy stomach and refusing to eat, which was disappointing. She has been on the tylan two weeks with 4 more weeks to go I keep hoping she will start feeling better every day. I have a question about feeding her after her food has been in the refrigerator. Does it need to be warmed up to activate the enzymes or can she eat it cold okay? There are so many things I do not know yet, this is quite a learning curve.

Hi SHerri~

Personally, yes, i would slightly warm the food.... DO NOT MICROWAVE! instead,try placing the bowl of food in another bowl of warm water allowing the bowl with the food to warm slowly.

Just a general fact... cold food is usually not as appealing to a dog as room temperature or slightly warm food.

If it has been two weeks on Tylan and you are still hearing tummy grumblings... it sounds like something might need a little adjusting.

these are some of the things you might want to try..... but only one at a time!

1. increase the enzymes by a pinch

2. change the food... what you are feeding Great it might not be the best food for Greta's gut flora.... by the way.... what food are you using? if you want to try a different food maybe try a low fiber (4% or less fiber content) with a limited ingredient.....

3. another thought is when we hear that an antibiotic is not working by two weeks... we suggest to the person to talk to their vet, explain what is going on and ask the vet to switch out the antibiotic for another antibiotic, since you are using Tylan,(this is the best choice 1st because it usually works on a larger audience of EPI dogs- -but then again, we are dealing with EPI and unfortunately, not everything goes according to plan (*sigh*!) anyway... if the Tylan doesn't appear to be completely working by the end of the 2nd week... then you might want to ask to change to Metronidazole.

4. Another thought is you might want to try and start introducing some probiotics. This can be tricky, sometimes this can make things worse (at first) but other times it works... Problem is that you have to find the "right" probiotic that is best suited to Greta.  you might want to try something like Forti FLora.... give 2-4 hours AWAY from the antibiotic and see if this makes a difference with the gurgling gut. BUT if you do decide to try this... please start with less than 1/2 of whatever is recommended on the bottle and over a couple of weeks work your way up to the recommended dose.  Just a thought......

let us know what you decide to do and we can try and help you navigate via our own personal experiences..........