EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
managing EPI
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| Forum Home > General Discussion > Anything to increase bone strength? | ||
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Member Posts: 101 |
Hi All Although we feel Frods is getting better, as per his last xrays 2 months ago, the docs said his bone density had become very poor. Also, sometimes, even these days (although this was much more frequent before) he trips and falls, if gets really excited at something. Is there anything we could do specially to increase bone strength / desnity? Any special food or suppliment we could look at? Thanks, Kabir | |
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-- Frodo (5 year old lab) was diagnosed on in May 2012, weighed 14.5 Kgs. Currently weighs 16.5 kg with absolutely normal poop. Now he is gets 4 meals a day of mashed potatoes, carrots and variants of pumpkin. In the morning he also gets a boiled egg and for lunch about 200gms of Fish. He gets 1 Creon 10 capsule 20 mins before each meal and is on weekly B12 shots and 1/4th tea sppon of Tynal 2x a day. He also gets a tablespoon of either Cod liver oil or Extra virgin Coconut oil for healing his intestines.
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Member Posts: 462 |
Hi Kabir I'm looking at the weight and breed of Frods and I'm wondering if he is getting enough protein. That would be something I would talk to your vet about. I checked kgs to pounds and it came out to 15 kgs is equal to 33 pounds which is small for most a labs. The lack of protein could be causing him to be weak. It also could be just from the low b12 and after that gets back up he may be fine. I would still check your menu with the vet. Low B12 will affect the nervous system. For bone we are giving Hans (95 pounds = 43 kgs (GSD) 1 Nature Made brand Calcium, 500 mg one time a day. (1/2 AM and PM) We started because his Blood test came back Low on Calcium. On his next blood test he was well within range, so I know its working. If you decide to try this I would check with your vet also for dosage and he may even have some kind of injection that would be better and quicker.
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-- Sharon and Hans; Hans is EPI and Lymes Positive, his birthday is 12/11/04 (GSD) His TLI was 1.0 on 10/17/08 When Diagnosed Down to .4 4/2/10. Weight 65 pounds on 12/08 now 95 pounds (Had him up to 104 in 2011) 1 1/2 cups Taste of the Wild Lamb, with very HOT water and soaked, then adding 1/2 pound Top Quaility Dog Food, boneless skinless turkey or Boneless skinless chicken breast.warmed in microwave for 15 to 20 seconds. 4 oz. Raw Pancreas not heated! Just warmed by sitting on counter while kibble soaked. All mixed together just before serving. All vits are OKed by vet. (Please note I don't not use powdered enzymes and the pancreas is added AFTER food and water has cooled)
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Member Posts: 2082 |
Have you looked at any home cooked dog foods recpies it is all about the right balance of protein carb calcium etc but i do understand that these foods are easier for us to get.I think the norm is something like 75% protein and 25% carb. Egg shell is a good form of calcium. Are there any kibble options out there with low fibre ie less than 3%. Ann | |
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-- ANN (UK)
Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now 5 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2. B12 RETESTED 0N 21-05-2013 Value 902 after 15 months of daily piils Yipheeee Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs) Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/ Also omega3 and Vitamin E daily. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic
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Member Posts: 2847 |
EPI dogs can have trouble absorbing fat-soluble vitamins, especially A, D, E and K. Perhaps you could ask your vet about Vitamin D and K.
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-- Kathy and Ted 10 yr old GSD rescue ~ gained 39 lbs
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Site Owner Posts: 10067 |
Hi Kabir.....you might want to ask your vet if supplementing with Bone Meal Powder will help. If so..... you can get Bone Meal powder for dogs from Amazon.com..... . or you can do egg shells like Ann suggested. (found these instructions for egg shells): Eggshell Powder for Dogs Eggshell powder is the easiest and least expensive way to supplement dog health with calcium. It is exactly what you are thinking… take your left over egg shells, grind them up and there you have a perfect calcium supplement for your dog. Actually, there a just a few additional steps to creating the perfect home made calcium supplement: After cracking the egg, rinse out the egg shell and allow it to dry. You will want at least a dozen egg shells collected in order to make the powder.Place the egg shells on a cooking sheet and bake at 300◦F for about ten minutes. The baking process removes excess oils and makes the shells dry and brittle so they will be easier to grind.Grind the shells with a seed grinder or a blender and make sure all of the sharp pieces are gone before you stop grinding.You’re ready to add the veterinarians recommended dosage to your dog’s meals. | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 480 |
That's so interesting Olesia! I'm going to try it with Mahi - what is the recommended dose? Devika | |
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-- Mahi, the Indian EPI dog, diagnosed at 10 months, now 3 years old. Was 60 (28 kgs) lbs, went down to 46 lbs (19 kgs), but now with YOUR help, on 29th July 2012 touched 66 lbs(30 kgs). Fed 3 times a day - homecooked diet of 1 kg potatoes, 70 gms lentils, 150 gms tapioca, squash, beetroot, carrots mashed together, 2 boiled eggs and 500 ml yoghurt. 1 Salmon Omega 3 tablet given per day. 1 tablet of Creon 25K given 20 mins before every meal. Very, very active - knock on wood, and seems to have gone from a level 10 of "hungry" to maybe an 8. On 27th July 2011, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 7. On 29th July 2012, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 6!!
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Member Posts: 4441 |
this is interesting...I keep my shells for the compost but I may try this! One can never have strong enough bones :-)) | |
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-- Michele http://gardensoftranquility.com/ Jackie - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E: cisapride and metoclopramide. Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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Member Posts: 4441 |
this is interesting...I keep my shells for the compost but I may try this! One can never have strong enough bones :-)) | |
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-- Michele http://gardensoftranquility.com/ Jackie - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12. Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup. Natures Domain, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E: cisapride and metoclopramide. Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU. Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age. We failed fostering and now he has his forever home
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Member Posts: 101 |
Thanks for teh suggestions. Will try the egg shells once I get to know the dosage. | |
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-- Frodo (5 year old lab) was diagnosed on in May 2012, weighed 14.5 Kgs. Currently weighs 16.5 kg with absolutely normal poop. Now he is gets 4 meals a day of mashed potatoes, carrots and variants of pumpkin. In the morning he also gets a boiled egg and for lunch about 200gms of Fish. He gets 1 Creon 10 capsule 20 mins before each meal and is on weekly B12 shots and 1/4th tea sppon of Tynal 2x a day. He also gets a tablespoon of either Cod liver oil or Extra virgin Coconut oil for healing his intestines.
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Member Posts: 2088 |
I used to use egg shells or ground bone powder years ago and put 1 small teaspoon per day.....my dogs were all on the large side. When I checked for Cassie it was a bit different now...the bone is more finely ground and the amounts were quite small. There was also a 'warning' not to exceed stated doses as too much is not good. I now use raw and finely grind chicken with bone 'in' to supply the calcium, we don't use enough eggs now with just the two of us so the shells go in the compost. Val | |
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-- Razzy, GSD. EPI for 4 1/2 years... sadly lost to cancer 30th July 2011 aged 9 1/2 years.
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Site Owner Posts: 10067 |
HI everyone.... this is the website that i got the Eggshell Powder from.... but it does not tell you how much to give: http://www.organic-pet-digest.com/supplement-dog-health.html ... i'll see if i can find some instructions.... but even if i do, maybe still ask your vet how much egg shell is they think would be good. I too always gave1 level teaspoon to my dogs, but that was commercial brands of bone meal calcium powder... which i am guessing is probably more concentrated then powdered eggs made at home, but still it would be best to get a professional opnion. If we really can't figure this out, i met some veterinarian nutritionists at the conference, i'll just contact one of them next week (i have to work today and tomorrow so will not have much time) and see if they can help us with this.... | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Site Owner Posts: 10067 |
well... finding a suggested dose was easy (but STILL please discuss with your vet just to get their professional opinion on this also!) Suggested Doses of Ground Egg Shells Ground egg shells are extremely high in calcium and contain virtually no phosphorus. 1 teaspoon of ground egg shells contains approximately 1900 mg of calcium. This is a whopping amount of calcium! Different meats contain different amounts of calcium and phosphorus. Therefore, ideally I would like to provide a specific amount of calcium based on the meat being fed to help create the 2:1 ratio. However, since ground egg shells are so concentrated and the difference in the amount of phosphorus in meats is relatively speaking minute, it would be difficult to successfully make serving amounts for ground egg shells that could easily be given for each meat. So for simplicity's sake, I have created 1 chart for all meats. Based on my evaluation of the nutritional analysis of various meats, the amount suggested is quite close to creating the ideal 2:1 ratio. Now wait, I know what some of you are thinking! You are thinking... how do I know how much meat I am going to be feeding anyway? Well, not to worry — Part 3 of my book explains how to make and feed. You can also read the page earlier about feeding. So add the following amount of ground egg shells using the table below: Weight of Meat Ground Egg Shells
100 grams 1/4 tsp
1/4 pound 1/4 tsp
1 Jumbo Egg or 1 Large Egg 1/8 tsp
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Site Owner Posts: 10067 |
Just bringing this post to the top for those interested in suggested egg shell powder doses.... | |
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-- Olesia, owned by Izzy-45lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable almost 7 yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Feed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane. I give 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.
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Member Posts: 480 |
Thanks Olesia... but... since Mahi is vegetarian - how would I make that calculation? Maybe just stick to the 1 tsp per day? Or less than that? Sorry for the trouble! Devika | |
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-- Mahi, the Indian EPI dog, diagnosed at 10 months, now 3 years old. Was 60 (28 kgs) lbs, went down to 46 lbs (19 kgs), but now with YOUR help, on 29th July 2012 touched 66 lbs(30 kgs). Fed 3 times a day - homecooked diet of 1 kg potatoes, 70 gms lentils, 150 gms tapioca, squash, beetroot, carrots mashed together, 2 boiled eggs and 500 ml yoghurt. 1 Salmon Omega 3 tablet given per day. 1 tablet of Creon 25K given 20 mins before every meal. Very, very active - knock on wood, and seems to have gone from a level 10 of "hungry" to maybe an 8. On 27th July 2011, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 7. On 29th July 2012, officially downgraded "hungry" level to 6!!
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Member Posts: 1781 |
Kibble and commercially prepared foods will have the proper amounts. There would be no reason to add anything to these diets. Like with other things, too much or too less can cause problems. For those on homecooked, it would be recommended to talk to your vet or a nutritionist to make sure there is the right amount of everything. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2&aid=652 http://www.yourdogsdiet.com/calcium_in_dogs_diet.php | |
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At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5) Natures Domain, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am. Hypothyroidism: Soloxine. Stable and happy 97 lbs.You must login to post.
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