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Forum Home > General Discussion > Wizzie and now ... diabetes

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

Hello

We have had Wizzie for 12 years now and managed many health problems along the way (epilepsy, EPI, arthritis, incontinence).

I would say that despite this long list of conditions requiring daily medication that he has been very healthy happy and active.

However that all changed when we put him in kennels for the first time in June.  He was not the same dog when we got him back and got sicker and sicker.  Unfortunately the symptoms of diabetes were the same as those of an overdose of his epilepsy medication (KBr) as he had lost weight we presumed it was the EPI and weight loss making him pee all the time and wobble all over the place. The vet agreed and told us lower the medication and  to phone in a week.  Well after the week we realised he had lost a kg in body weight and took him back to the vet. 

DIABETES.


So after two days on insulin he was loads better.


But getting his diabetes under control is proving more difficult than any of the above conditions.  We have been trying for about 6 weeks now.


He has three meals a day for the EPI, he is on caninsulin twice a day.  He seems to do well for a while perks up then a few days later start going hyper glycaemic again.


Anyway I was wondering about getting a home glucose monitor if anyone has used one - which would you recommend.


Vet is being brilliant and only charges us £12 each time we go in for glucose test (my husband is out of work and I am on 10% pay cut!!!!!) so I would need to really know it was the right thing to do beofre buying one.




September 11, 2012 at 7:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3453

Hello

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this we have several members that have diabetic dogs as well i will drop a Pm to one of the Uk members and ask for her input..........just keep an eye on your thread we also have other world wide members that may also be able to help you.

One thing i will mention  here is that  with a diabetic dog you noramlly have to work on the diabetes and then the EPI we also recommend that for both conditions that a B12 tablet is used .........good for Epi and the neurological side affects that diabetes can lead to  i will post you a link up for that later.

Sorry about your husband  and your job this recession isnt getting any better while you are on how are you managing the costs of the EPi what food and enzymes are you using ???

Ann

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

September 11, 2012 at 8:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dar
Member
Posts: 3171

Welcome Alison and Wizzie,   Wow......Wizzie is a lucky pup !!!!  I will let our UK members help you as products are different across the pond ....Be assured Kodi and I are thinking of you...hope things get straightened out soon.

--

  Dar and Kodi, From Washington state

 ' I aspire to be the person that my dog thinks I am !!'

Kodi (GSD female) , born August 19, 2010 , was diagnosed July 15, 2011 at 11 months .Lowest weight, 47 lbs, weight as of  4/27/2013  62.9 lbs. Our goal for her at this time is now 65 lbs. !!!   And she made it!! .  TLI .07 , Folate 9.4 , Cobalmin 536 .

Kodi is on Pioneer Naturals Whitefish or Venison , 2  cups kibble twice a day with  3/4 teaspoons of enzymes (X 8 ) per cup,from Diane. 1 Trinfac-B capsule once a day. Also 1/8 t. of ground coriander, 1/16 t. of ground fennel seed and cinnamon per meal (for stomach acid and burps). KOdi started having issues again with her feet.. I think it was the peas in the Acana foods..and her poo is good with the Pioneer Naturals too, she is not really happy about eating, but she is happier (or maybe I am to have solved the gnawing of the paws). So we will see how this works !



September 11, 2012 at 9:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

Since the EPI diagnosis he has been on Burns Lamb and brown rice.  He does well on this for both EPI and epilepsy.  It may not be the best for diabetes though as relatively high in carbohydrates.  But changing his diet I don't think is an option as changes in salt will really affect his epilepsy medication and of course his EPI.  the enzymes are Pancreatic enzyme from Pfizer.  One tub for £55 last about three months so not too bad.

He is a terrible scavenger so spends most of his time outside with a muzzle on - a good tip to other EPI dog owners, you really don't want them eating that dead rabbit....


He has been seizure free for over three years and I don't really believe he is epileptic anymore but best not to change things now - at 14 he doesn't have that much time left with us,  so we'll continue with the KBr...

September 11, 2012 at 11:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3453

Alison- my friend has used that food for at least 7 years for her Epi dog and she is doing great on it as does Jean on here I can use there high energy lamb for Maddie I have sent Jackie a pm I think she is hoping to get on later she only has her phone at the moment and is finding it difficult to connect….but there are other diabetic dog members so bear with it hopefully somebody will chime in

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

September 11, 2012 at 11:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ruby'stara
Member
Posts: 158

Hello and thank you Maddie Ann for the shout. I am under the gun with a project at work but will check in tonight at 8:00 est.

--

Tara & Ruby a 14 yr. old/16# Boston Terrier who keeps going against all the odds.

Conditions: EPI, Diabetes, Megaesophagus, High Blood Pressure, Significant Heart Murmur- suspect Congestive Heart Failure, suspected Gastric Ulcers

Treatments:

EPI: 3/4 Honest Kitchen Embark with 1/4 Orijen Fish twice daily

Creon 1- #10 & 1- #5

B12 injectable weekly and Wonderlabs Trinfac B on food twice daily

1Tsp. Coconut oil on food twice daily

Diabetes:Very hard to regulate, currently 1.5 units NPH twice daily

to ward off UTI's so common to diabetes: Cranberry Relief & D-Manose

Megaesophagus: Fed upright and held upright for 1/2 Hr. 

Needs to have the slippery texture of Honest Kitchen dehydrated food

High Blood Pressure: Amlodipine

Suspected CHF and signifcant heart murmur: nothing

Suspected Gastric Ulcers: Slippery Elm, without which she vomits


September 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Melon collie
Member
Posts: 38
Hi Alison We also have to contend with EPI and diabetes in our 2 year old collie. Our main problem is giving her injections as she is needle phobic. It took a couple of really bad weeks before we won that one. We have not resorted to blood sugar testing as she is so phobic but I sure it would improve her control. I am glad your vet is so helpful. Mine us very helpful but also very expensive -£84 for her last blood test and I cannot get them to do B12 levels. I am in Essex. Do email me if you need support although we are still quite new to this too. You will find incredible support on this forum. Good luck. Jacqui
--

2 year old border collie. At 5 months began to ge ill. EPI diagnosed at 9 months. Started on panzyme and gained 2 kg in 2 weeks. Poos settled from 14 puddings a day to about 4 x 75% normalish and tail returned to happy waving. Has been well and happy for 18 months but has now been diagnosed with diabetes. 

September 11, 2012 at 1:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16495

Hi Alison and a very warm welcome to you and Wizzie.... Wizzie sure has had her share of problems but that is so nice to hear that thru it all she remained a happy pup... so very sorry to hear that she is now struggling with Diabetes.


I am so glad the UK people and Tara (who can really help with the Diabetes..Thanks Ann for contacting Tara ) will pop on later..... as i personally do not have any  experience on this except to reiterate what Ann said, if you have to make a management choice, work on the Diabetes first, and EPI second.


Also..... in an effort to maybe help others... i placed some posts on this page

http://www.epi4dogs.com/epiwithdiabetes.htm

with examples of how others managed diabetes and EPI in their dog... which might be a helpful read.......and if you want to understand the diseae in diabetes via veterinarian research, you might want to check out these two pages:

http://www.epi4dogs.com/diabetes.htm

http://www.epi4dogs.com/feedingadiabeticdog.htm


May i ask....was Wizzie dubbed Wizzie for the incontinence?  My Gal Izzy came to us with juvenile incontinence and we dubbed her Izzy Wizzy....  ;) ... so i was just wondering.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

September 11, 2012 at 7:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ruby'stara
Member
Posts: 158

Hi Alison, sorry you are needing to add one more disease. My dog has Epi, diabetes and megaesophagus, so i feel your pain.

First let me say it can take awhile to achieve regulation so try to be patient. But if you are seeing truly hypoglycemic episodes that needs to be addressed right away. Hypo events can actually cause seizures and I would hate for that to start up her epilepsy again...besides being dangerous.

Being willing to home test will speed the regulation process along, help in your understanding of the disease and understanding of how the diabetes manifests in your dog, as it is very dog individual.

Some basic guidelines are:

* to start slow. I have seen many dogs overdosed early on or had their dosages increased too rapidly.

*Stay at a dose for 3-5 days before increasing, as you get closer to the target numbers you want to slow down and let the dose settle in for a bit longer

*Do small increases - 1/4- 1/2 unit for small dogs, 1/2 - 1 unit for larger dogs, again this would depend on the numbers. Really high numbers might warrant a larger increase.

*Always base increases on a curve which is testing right before food, then every 2 hrs. after up to dinner time. Things should be consistent for three days prior to curving

* Base the dose on the lowest number rather then the high

* It is a good idea to weigh the food, rather then measuring cups, so that the amounts are consistent

* It is best not to exercise your dog until you see the trends. Some dogs are known to drop by 100 points with exercise.

I am an avid home tester. Mostly because Ruby has been pretty hard to regulate. I don't know if she would be this way without the Epi or if the enzymes wreak havoc with her food rise.

She spikes about 300 points with food. We have recently found an approach that works which I will explain soon.

To your original question, there are two ways to go about home testing. There is an animal validated meter (Alpha Track) which runs about $100 and then strips are about $1 each. I have that to run comparisons, but most times now I use the walmart meter called Prime. The meter was $18 and 50 strips cost $10. The readings are always lower then the AT (Alpha Track), but they are consistent. When I got the Prime I ran enough test at different ranges so I got a handle on how to convert the readings. You could do the same thing by bringing your meter to the vets and comparing it to their animal meter, just use the same drop of blood. You would want to do this comparison in each of the hundreds (100s, 200s, 300s and so on)as the comparisons seems to change. I will say that the lows are the closest between the two meters. Not all human meters are that good. The midle of the road cost wise and very reliable (though still a human meter so will read a bit lower then animal meter) is the One touch ultra 2

There are a fair amount of videos on youtube that show how to home test. The forum I belong to for the diabetes is k9diabetes. I have been on a few forums and it, like this one, is one of the best. Good information and friendly non judgemental people.

Most home testers test twice daily at the "fasting", right before meals. Anything below 100 and I would decrease the dosage, although with as new as you are at this I would suggest running the numbers a little higher until you get familiar with the trends.

So, back to the EPI and diabetes. I think due to the predigestion from the enzymes Ruby has a huge food rise. At this point she is on a long acting insulin, which differs from your insulin. Have you seen a profile of your insulin? The midday meal will be spiking her up without much insulin to balance it. I imagine you are feeding 3 x daily in an effort to put weight on? Unregulated diabetes makes it hard for the cells to absorb nutrition, so I would work on getting the numbers regulated and I think feeding 3 x a day may be working against you....That being said some people do have to have another meal or snack added in, but this approach is usually arrived at later.

Do you have a curve from the vet that I could look at? I would be happy to tell you what I see.

If your dog has had hypoglycemic episodes it can take up to 3-5 days for the numbers to level out again. Here is one of my favorite links for diabetes.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you. The learning curve is pretty steep with diabetes, but home testing will be a huge help.

I am in a busy week at work but will check in nightly. If you need to reach me sooner you can send a private message through the forum and it will be forwarded to my email.

--

Tara & Ruby a 14 yr. old/16# Boston Terrier who keeps going against all the odds.

Conditions: EPI, Diabetes, Megaesophagus, High Blood Pressure, Significant Heart Murmur- suspect Congestive Heart Failure, suspected Gastric Ulcers

Treatments:

EPI: 3/4 Honest Kitchen Embark with 1/4 Orijen Fish twice daily

Creon 1- #10 & 1- #5

B12 injectable weekly and Wonderlabs Trinfac B on food twice daily

1Tsp. Coconut oil on food twice daily

Diabetes:Very hard to regulate, currently 1.5 units NPH twice daily

to ward off UTI's so common to diabetes: Cranberry Relief & D-Manose

Megaesophagus: Fed upright and held upright for 1/2 Hr. 

Needs to have the slippery texture of Honest Kitchen dehydrated food

High Blood Pressure: Amlodipine

Suspected CHF and signifcant heart murmur: nothing

Suspected Gastric Ulcers: Slippery Elm, without which she vomits


September 11, 2012 at 9:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

HI


He gets three meals a day but they are at 7 30 am, 6pm and 8pm due to being at work.   He goes hyper glycaemic not hypo.

The caninuslin peaks at 8 hours post injection, so at first with one dose a day he was getting the insulin for his first meal but  by the time 2nd and 3rd meals came along he had no insulin left so was always hyper.  After another night of no sleep (I am insomniac) Wizzie was wanting out hourly until about 2am then Iwould not get back to sleep, I spent the whole night thinking about it and emailed the vet and said it is not working we need to change.  SO now we are on two doses a day.


We have not done a curve yet as the vet understands it would be expensive for us.  But I am tihnking the way round this would be to get a home monitor, so when I have a bit more time I will look at the options outlined above - thanks!

I don't think they have another patient with both EPI and diabetes (let alone epilepsy!)


I also tihnk one thing we are doing wrong (vet and us) is change the dose as soon as a bad reading is obtained, I think we need to wait a bit longer.

Alison

September 12, 2012 at 6:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ashley
Member
Posts: 226

So sorry you have to go through this on top of everything else Wizzie has to deal with. Jewels(14 years old) was recently diagnosed with Diabetes in July of this year. She has had EPI since June 2011. We are also on Caninsulin 2x a day 3 units per injection. We have been slowly doing increases with her to try and get numbers under control. It can take quite a while like Tara said to get it under control. We have stable numbers with Jewels but they still run a bit higher then I would like. So we are working with smaller increases of 1/4-1/2 unit after a curve just liek Tara suggested. Our vet suggested we start out with 3 units per meal unless she was under a certain number and then we were not supposed to give her any. But by the time the next meal came around her numbers had shot wayyy up because of not having that injection. But afer some good advice we lowered her dose right down to 1  1/4 units and worked our way up(which we are still doing) At the beginning Jewels was still in the "honeymoon" phase so she was still producing a little bit of insulin herself and thats where we would get those low numbers once in a while. But as of now her numbers are still on the higer side. With all the stuff going on with Wizzies body you may never get a perfect set of numbers becuase there is so much playing into it. Especially with the EPI affecting the pacreas as well, but we should be able to get them to a manageable number. 


I also use an at home meter(accu-check compact plus) It holds a drum of 17 strips so I dont have to insert one each time. I was also able to purchase a bulk amount of strips so we have stuck with this meter. The one touch ultra is a good meter(one my vet uses) but the srips are quite expensive so I have kept with this one for now. I am also in a financial bind right now as we are in the middle of moving to a whole new city and need to get settled with jobs. A good place to get the strips if you go for a brand name meter is amazon. They are quite a bit cheaper for them. I noticed Tara suggested the Prime meter from Relion but they only sell that is the US and I noticed that you live in Scotland(on your profile) So I dont know what type of generic meter they sell there as I live in Canada and cant really help there. 


As for the food, if its working I would keep to the same food for now. I have kept to the same food for Jewels as well because it is working for both my EPI dogs. I know some brands are labled as "low glycemic" but those brands usually have grains in them and I have been doing grain free becuase thats been working for the EPI. So you kind of have to make a sacrifice for one ailment or another I find. I have been doing low glycemic wet food with her grain free kibble becuase she has now become a very picky eater so at least one aspect of it is low glycemic. 


Tara has been my diabetic savior for Jewels. She has been so wonderful and helpful through all of this, she is very knowledgeable about diabetes so anything Tara has to say I would trust in her advice. 


Sorry for babbling on! Hope all goes well with Wizzie and keep us updated!

--

Mom to Thor 18 month old German Shepherd(became part of our family on April 09 2012) diagnosed at 8 months. 63lbs upon arrival 77lbs as of today! On 2 tsp. of pancreatin 6x us powder from enzyme diane per meal(2 cups of food) Was also mom to Jewels 14 year old Jack russell R.I.P. Aug 21 1998-Nov 9 2012

Also mom to 6 year old German shepherd Jackson, and 4 year old husky Mya, 1 1/2 year old kitten Shelby, 4 month old kitten Ariel and 4 ball pythons(Storm & Rogue) and soon to be mom to our first human baby(june 2013!!)

 


September 12, 2012 at 10:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

ruby'stara
Member
Posts: 158

Hello again Alison,

I think getting the home meter will make a huge difference for you. The spot checking that is happening is only telling you what the number is at that particular moment. What I am concerned about is in your initial post you said that after 2 days on insulin he was so much better, but now is being hard to regulate.

So....this is just guess work, but here is what I am afraid may be happening. When the body senses the bgs (blood glucose) falling either too low or too quickly the liver will shoot out stored glucose. This may happen if the BGs fall more then 100 points in an hour. It can also happen when the numbers are not necessarily dangerous, but the body perceives them to be because it is so used to being high. The technical name for this is Glycogenolysis. Here is a link that explains it:

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Glycogenolysis

Then of course there is full blown rebound when the body is very much in danger, liver shoots out glucose and can take days to recover with the numbers shooting from too low to high and back again until the body stabilizes.

So, my concern is that some of these spot readings that you are seeing could very well be highs that are actually a bounce back up from either a dangerous low or a perceived low.

This is why getting a curve is so crucial. It is also why it is very ill advised to do increases without a curve or based on one bad reading.

Also pure speculation on my part, but I can see a scenario where the first few days he was on the insulin it started to bring the numbers down. Then possibly as the numbers came down and the insulin didn't have as much glucose to clear he started going too low and thus started a vicious cycle. Even if you are seeing too high numbers each time you spot check there is a very real possibility this is occurring, especially if increasing the dose isn't seeming to bring the numbers down.

When you talk about the insulin peaking at 8 hrs. I assume you are getting this information from an insulin profile. The guidelines in the profile are just that, guidelines. You may find once you do a curve that your particular dog processes the insulin very differently. Ruby tends to use up her insulin quickly due to her food rise so the peaks nevelone ER happened whe the profile said it should.

I have been at this for over a year and am very active on the k9diabetes forum. Due to that continuing education and being an avid tester I now use a fast or rapid acting insulin to handle her food rise. This approach does take a fair amount of knowledge and testing, but it may be something to look at if you can't get her regulated on the food she is on with the one insulin. I am not familiar with the food, but know there are a few people on the k9diabetes forum who feed Burns. They might also have suggestions of which meters would be good to purchase where you live.

I have tried just about every insulin and approach out there.The approach we are using now is used by only one other caregiver that I know of, but I am having great success with it. I feed Ruby once a day. Dose her Basal/long acting insulin twice daily ( the dose is smaller in the morning when she doesn't eat) and the dinner meal is covered one of the long acting shots and usually R insulin.

Thankfully even with the megaesophagus she is able to eat 3/4 the amount in one meal that she used to eat in two. I don't worry about the decrease in food because as her numbers are better she will in turn gain weight.

I hope this helps, Tara

--

Tara & Ruby a 14 yr. old/16# Boston Terrier who keeps going against all the odds.

Conditions: EPI, Diabetes, Megaesophagus, High Blood Pressure, Significant Heart Murmur- suspect Congestive Heart Failure, suspected Gastric Ulcers

Treatments:

EPI: 3/4 Honest Kitchen Embark with 1/4 Orijen Fish twice daily

Creon 1- #10 & 1- #5

B12 injectable weekly and Wonderlabs Trinfac B on food twice daily

1Tsp. Coconut oil on food twice daily

Diabetes:Very hard to regulate, currently 1.5 units NPH twice daily

to ward off UTI's so common to diabetes: Cranberry Relief & D-Manose

Megaesophagus: Fed upright and held upright for 1/2 Hr. 

Needs to have the slippery texture of Honest Kitchen dehydrated food

High Blood Pressure: Amlodipine

Suspected CHF and signifcant heart murmur: nothing

Suspected Gastric Ulcers: Slippery Elm, without which she vomits


September 12, 2012 at 9:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7224

Oh boy you are struggling here but have loads of advice which I cannot help with at all

 

as Ann said we are on Burns Alert lamb and brown rice as my vet wanted low fibre low protein and she is doing well on it

 

i would be very reluctant to change food and note your comment about a muzzle which my vet suggested at the start of EPI due to them wanting to eat anything and everything especially when exercising out of your view in other words squirrel hunting...................................

 

let us know how you do

 

 

jean

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

September 12, 2012 at 10:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

ah thanks so much for all the posts, so much great advice to take in.  The vet said this time to leave it for two weeks, he is on 6 units twice daily of the caninsulin.  I really need to get the computer off my husband tonight and look for some monitors.  I haev signed up to the K9 diabetes forum but not yet had a chance to get on there.  Doing illegal posting form work right now!  At the moment Wizzie is doing well, he is well enough this week for the dog walker to take him out today - last week there was no chance.  He does the senior walk (an insult to all collies!) which is just a half hour, as he is no way ready to do the full up the hill hour walk we used to get the dog walker to do.

Unfortunately I will be in trouble with my husband as I was doing the school run (normally I leave them to it and go off gaily to work), and the dog got the boys' toast covered in of all things chocolate spread - great that will do his BG levels the world of good (not!)!  I am leaving his muzzle on him in future at breakfast time...

September 13, 2012 at 6:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3453

Thanks Tara for answering my PM

I have just checked the foods and don’t know whether this is of any help but this is the food Alison currently uses it is rice based

http://burnspet.co.uk/products/burns-for-dogs/burns-lamb-brown-rice-dog-food.html

this one is heavy in rice and lower in oats but low fiber 2.2 %

Burns do also produce a diabetic dog food which is probably the one on the K9( forum )

There food is usually on par with the like of Hills etc but cheaper !!!!! Which is this one

http://burnspet.co.uk/products/burns-for-dogs/burns-weight-control-dog-food.html

The second food is higher in fiber but and it’s a big but its is mostly oat based so …….its one of the better fibres see fiber section

Ann

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

September 13, 2012 at 7:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

Ashley - How do you get the blood from the dog for the home glucose checks - I noticed the accu-check one comes with a lancing wand, do you use this?  Where on the dog do you use it?  And where did you buy it?  could I get my diabetic parents to buy it as they will get it cheap/for free? He is pretty good about having the injections despite being sooo skinny, he's not bothered so hopefully we could do home lancing.

Alison

September 13, 2012 at 7:54 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ashley
Member
Posts: 226

I started testing out on the teenie tiny vein on her ear(as recommended from my vet) and that was such a pain literally for jewels and I. It was so hard to find that I had to stab her so many times I just could do it anymore so I finally found this linke:


http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html (Hope its ok to post this here)


So now I test her on the little carpal pad(the little one on the front paw that does nothing haha) Ive tried the lip one but not always easy and if they move the blood gets wiped off instantly. If wizzie has eblow callouses that is a great spot to test. I tested my shephereds just to see the difference from Jewels to them and used the elbow. So easy and the blood comes easy as well. The little carpal pad you may have to squeeze a bit to get enough blood but it doesnt really bother Jewels too much. And yes I use the lancing wand on her pad becuase it is so thick. I actually used it on every area but her ear as it was so thin. 


You could ask you parents to get you something. I got my monitor from my diabetic friend who had an extra and I just bought the strips. You can also check out the meter websites and most meter companies will give you a coupon for a free meter if you purchase the strips. You can also buy the online, from any pharmacy or drugstore. If you plan on using the coupon you will have to purchase it from a store. But if your parents can get it for cheaper or free I would go that route. I now purchase my strips off of a man who has diabetes and gets 3 packs of strips a month but only uses 1 so he sells me the other 2. But amazon is another great option for test strips as they are usually around 50% off the normal price(well the ones for the accucheck anyways) 

--

Mom to Thor 18 month old German Shepherd(became part of our family on April 09 2012) diagnosed at 8 months. 63lbs upon arrival 77lbs as of today! On 2 tsp. of pancreatin 6x us powder from enzyme diane per meal(2 cups of food) Was also mom to Jewels 14 year old Jack russell R.I.P. Aug 21 1998-Nov 9 2012

Also mom to 6 year old German shepherd Jackson, and 4 year old husky Mya, 1 1/2 year old kitten Shelby, 4 month old kitten Ariel and 4 ball pythons(Storm & Rogue) and soon to be mom to our first human baby(june 2013!!)

 


September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16495

Ya'll are AMAZING... helping each other with the diabetes part... thank you so much to each of you for chiming in.... i am going to take your posts (please let me know at: [email protected] if this is not okay) and post on the diabetic page... the tips are simply great suggestions and it is so hard for so many that have to manage EPI +Diabetes... and the mess of it all is that, like EPI, each dog responds differently.  SO if we can offer all these varied suggestions in one place... it might be a life saver to someone out there struggling to find the right balance.  Thanks!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

September 13, 2012 at 7:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alison
Member
Posts: 11

OkAY - Wizzie woo is doing really good at the moment, he enjoyed his senior walk yesterday.  So hopefully he will do okay with this dosage he is on now (been about 1 week).


I am decided on  a home meter and think I will get the accu check aviva nano meter, which I have sourced for £8.95.

50 strips from ebay about £15

and fast clix lancets, 200 for £13 (ebay again).

Unless anyone says no don't use that one, I will go ahead this evening and buy all that.  And look forward to better more informed control over his diabetes.  I will check it against my vets one as advised.

best wishes to all

Alison

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September 14, 2012 at 7:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3453

Just reminded me re B12 and also Olesia i think what Kathy posted on another  thread re b12  and diabtes should be included there this what she wrote i hope she doesnt mind me quoting it here but i think it is important..

 

The B12 is in the form of methylcobalamin, a better form of B12 and definitley the form you want to use with a diabetic dog. It's the specific form of B12 that is used for brain and nervous system function, immune system regulation, peripheral and diabetic neuropathy.

Here is the link

http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881

I order a year supply at a time.

Ann

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

September 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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