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Forum Home > General Discussion > How to Feed Raw Beef Pancreas--A Photo Tutorial

FocusDogTraining
Member
Posts: 2

Because of the cost of the enzyme, some owners choose to utilize natural frozen pancreas instead of the powdered enzyme sold from veterinarians. There is minimal information on the internet on how specifically to feed raw pancreas, so we created this tutorial purely as an educational tool for owners of GSD with this condition.


We are not experts, nor veterinarians. This tutorial represents only our experience with feeding raw pancreas, and we hope that it will be beneficial to those who choose to do so. Here is a photo of a sick GSD prior to supplementation:



And, after ~ 4 weeks of supplementation using, initially, powdered enzyme, then raw beef pancreas. This photo represents a gain of ~ 12 lbs.:




Cow pancreas might be chosen in lieu of pig pancreas because there is less risk of transmitting contagious diseases with beef than pork. The general rule is to feed 1-3 ounces of pancreas per cup of food. 1.5 oz per cup is a good starting point for most dogs.


If you know a rancher who will give or sell you cow pancreas, you can obtain the tissue. Ask them to freeze the tissue after harvest. The frozen offal is effective for up to ~ 6 months. In our experience with local ranchers in Colorado in 2013, they will sell beef pancreas for ~ $4.00/lb. For the smaller size GSD, ~ 10-15 lbs of pancreas will provide supplementation for about a month. That's a total cost of ~ $40-60/month, which is a substantial cost savings compared to powdered enzyme. 


After receiving your frozen pancreas, let it thaw some on the counter so that you can cut it with a sharp knife. Begin cutting your pancreas in small pieces, and measure the cuts on a food scale that will measure small ounces, such as this one: 




Some of the tissue is fat that surrounds the organ, and other parts are glands that would connect the organ to the rest of the digestive organs. Recognize that the enzymes are in the reddish, non-fatty, and non-ductal part of the tissue. You can certainly feed your dog the ducts and the fat, but it won't contain enzymes. So, be sure that you are feeding at least 1.5 oz. of enzymatic tissue per cup of food. 


We cut the pancreas and store 3 oz. per serving in ziplocked sandwich bags. A collection of 3 oz. bags is stored in one large Ziplock freezer bag, so that the tissue in the smaller sandwich bags do not become freezer burned. Before bed each night, two 3 oz. bags are retrieved from the freezer and placed in the refrigerator to thaw for the next day. Early in the a.m., one baggie is retrieved and set on the counter to come to room temperature prior to feeding. 




3 oz. will be added to 2.5 cups of food, which we do twice daily. Enzymes in frozen tissue will be ineffective, so always feed room temperature offal. Never expose the tissue to heat (even warm water) because heat will denature the enzymes, making the tissue useless to the dog. 


The thawed tissue must be liquified prior to putting it on the food. If you feed the pancreas in one lump, it will not be chewed properly, and thus, will not come into maximum contact with the ingested food in the dog's stomach. Ideally, liquify the pancreas, then pour it over the food. 


Put the thawed tissue in a blender.



Add room temperature water to the tissue. We add ~ 1/2 cup for 3 oz. of tissue.




To keep my blender from being completely contaminated with offal twice daily, I cover the inside of the blender cap with saran wrap.




Use short pulses to liquify the tissue.



Pour the liquified tissue over the food. Grain free food is digested the best, if you can afford it.




Stir the liquified tissue into the food, so that all food bits come into contact with the tissue. This helps the dog digest the food. Add whatever supplements you need to add. In this case, the dog also is receiving a folate supplement and an antibiotic to control bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.



Then, feed your dog!




As this is raw offal tissue, ensure you clean your sink and blender well. 



As you clean, invariably, there are little offal bits that remain in your blender parts. Be sure to clean this thoroughly! Ideally, run the blender through the dishwasher frequently.



Don't forget to clean your disposal weekly, as well. These little lemon-scented plinko dots are helpful to keep your kitchen from smelling like pancreas! 




We hope this has been helpful. 

March 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jean and Kara
Administrator
Posts: 7233

Absolutely brilliant

 

that will find its way to be kept somewhere

 

jeanx  

--



 

 

Kara

 

From Liverpool England


born 21st July 2009


Adopted at five months old 26th December 2009

 

EPI dx August 2010


tli<1.00 folate 8.3 cobalimin 611

Antibiotics  2 Oxytet antibiotics 3 times a day also if we cannot fit the Oxytet in she has Tylan 1/8th teaspoon before her meals as a maintenanance dose

Food- Ashenbank Lamb Casserole  twice daily equalling 3 cups per day possibly more

Zantac (ranitadine) 75 mg 30 minutes before each meal as too much acid was being produced, causing shedding of bowel lining

Enzymes-Panzym 3 gram per meal twice daily ( 3/4 teaspoon ) 

B12 injection once every three weeks

One Chemeyes B12 with intrinsic factor of 40 daily

One Antepsin before bedtime

Allergies to beef, pork, chicken. and white fish confirmed by blood test

33.6 kilos in weight as of 5th May 2013

37 kilos as of 10th June 2014

40.65 kilos, 89.6 pounds as of 3rd March 2015

Vet says she is now processing her food correctly

Very proud of all of us


 

"UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS INVENTED BY DOGS"


I am not a vet, nor have veterinary experience, but have lived and breathed EPI for 51/2 years, and hope I can bring some support to others, as others have to me.

 

 

 





our favourite man Uncle Ian

March 3, 2013 at 1:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

FocusDogTraining
Member
Posts: 2

Thank you very much. 

We are appreciative of this site, as it is full of reliable information. As a physician of internal medicine (wife) and long-time dog trainer and breeder/seller of GSDs (husband), we were frustrated at the lack of information available on the specifics of treating this condition--aside from what is collected here. Our veterinarian is excellent, and she has helped tremendously, but there is nothing quite like watching or talking with someone else who does the work of caring for one of these dogs daily. 

So, after going through this process, we thought we'd share our experience, hoping it will help others. 

Ideally, one would not have a GSD with this condition, as it is inherited as an autosomal recessive trait in GSDs. We certainly do not endeavor to purchase one of these dogs for our programs. But, occasionally, you get surprised by an outstanding dog who has a genetic condition. It is just bad luck, if you do are in the business long enough. 


March 3, 2013 at 2:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

shirl
Member
Posts: 2176

Great info!  This question comes up now and then...it's nice to have a clear tutorial to refer people to.  Thanks!

--

Mom to Pixie, 11 year old sheltie,inherited from my mother-in-law 3/11.  Dx of EPI 9/09.  TLI in 10/09 was 0.4 ug/L.  As of 12/2/11, Folate fasting levels was 13.6 ug/L, and Cobalamin fasting was 615.   Current weight 20.2 lbs (7/15), solid member of the Chunky Monkey Club!  Feeding Canidae Grain-Free PURE Elements Lamb, Turkey & Chicken Formula Canned Dog Food, and Forza 10 Legend Digestion kibble.  We had to increase her dose of Pancreatin last year when she was 10. Tylan 1x/day maintenance dose.  Also takes 1/2 tablet pepcid for stomach upset 2x/day.   Getting bi-weekly B-12 shots.  Our little pack also includes my husband, our 13 year old sheltie, Einstein, and 3 year old sheltie, Zoey. 

March 3, 2013 at 3:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16651

WOW!!!! What a FANTASTIC TUTORIAL!!!!! Thank you so much for posting here and thank you for your very kind words about the reliable informationvon  this website.... I would like to keep your post someplace where it will alway be visably accessible for others.... this is an awesome tutorial.... but since i am "technically" challenged i will ask my techie guru... if he can help do this for us.


Again, THANK YOU!!!!!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

March 3, 2013 at 9:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

nicola king
Member
Posts: 114

thank you so much.  My butcher delivered my first batch of raw pancreas yesterday (its taken him more than a month to get a supplier) so I am about to start a trial.... this is really helpful.

--

diagnosed 16th Jan 2013.  Symtoms and clinical signs: PU/PD weight loss, hypoalbuminaemia, Raised ALK/ALP low USG.

10/1/13 TLI 3.8, Fo 7.8 B12 677 weight 24.5kg.  Fed Pets at home sensitive salmon. 240g plus 67 g cottage cheese am and pm with 3tsp pancreatic enzymes for cats and dogs.

23/1/13: weight 27.5kg, USG near normal. Stop cottage cheese. Trying Chemeyes 1tsp.

7/2/13 weight 28.5kg most blood tests returned to normal.  USG still low. Now on Panzyme 1tsp. starting coconut and salmon oil caps

16/3/13 weight 28.1kg now on raw pancreas. TLI 2.1, B12: 310, Fo:9 starting B12 injections.

30/4/13 B12 1363 weight 30 kg (and on a diet)

12/7/13 B12 1300+ (Chemeye dropped to alternate days) weight 31.5 KG (stricter diet!) temp change to panzyme as raw pancreas unavailable Mar 2014 doing really well weight stable . Panzyme .kibble.alt day chemeye b12 caps alt day salmon and coconut oil. Twice daily ranitidine. Teeth extracted -totally rotten


March 8, 2013 at 2:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

maddie ann
Member
Posts: 3475

Nicola_ if you have had it fresh the best way is to...liquiidise freeze into servings defrost at room tempreature.....this method relates to purchasing frozen pancreas and is very well put togther..

 

--

 ANN (UK).

Maddie DOB 01-10-2007 she is now  8 DX 04/11 .B12 140 now 644 TLI <1.00 Folate 14.2.

After 15 months on the B12 tablets with the intrisic factor she was retested and her b12 is now 902.

Weight was 22.3kg now 33.2kg (04-05-12) she is a small GSDbut she gained .(24lbs)

Feed a mixture of foods she does better on fibre 3% and below she has  b12 tablets daily (imported from the USAhttp://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6881) now changing to the uk version from http://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

organic virgin  coconut oil dailly. Use Panzym 1/4 a tsp per 200 grams of food .Got SIBO under control after antibiotics ( stormormgyl) used synbotic by protexin. a pre-probotic also given daily.

March 8, 2013 at 8:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

nicola king
Member
Posts: 114

so true ann bit as luck would have it when I got the text from my butcher to say the pancreas had arrived I was at the airportto go on my hols for a week.  My only option atthat stagewas to ask him to freeze it for me in 1-2 oz batches, minced which he has.  I've not yet worked out the cost benefit (or if it suits her) so not sure if I'll do it again. If there's a next time I'll be liquidising it fresh :)


--

diagnosed 16th Jan 2013.  Symtoms and clinical signs: PU/PD weight loss, hypoalbuminaemia, Raised ALK/ALP low USG.

10/1/13 TLI 3.8, Fo 7.8 B12 677 weight 24.5kg.  Fed Pets at home sensitive salmon. 240g plus 67 g cottage cheese am and pm with 3tsp pancreatic enzymes for cats and dogs.

23/1/13: weight 27.5kg, USG near normal. Stop cottage cheese. Trying Chemeyes 1tsp.

7/2/13 weight 28.5kg most blood tests returned to normal.  USG still low. Now on Panzyme 1tsp. starting coconut and salmon oil caps

16/3/13 weight 28.1kg now on raw pancreas. TLI 2.1, B12: 310, Fo:9 starting B12 injections.

30/4/13 B12 1363 weight 30 kg (and on a diet)

12/7/13 B12 1300+ (Chemeye dropped to alternate days) weight 31.5 KG (stricter diet!) temp change to panzyme as raw pancreas unavailable Mar 2014 doing really well weight stable . Panzyme .kibble.alt day chemeye b12 caps alt day salmon and coconut oil. Twice daily ranitidine. Teeth extracted -totally rotten


March 8, 2013 at 1:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Two GSDs
Member
Posts: 13

Excellent article!

My one question is, have there been studies on the level of consistency with the raw beef pancreas? From my understanding it's inconsistent in pork pancreas. I've also read, I believe here somwhere, that it will remain 40% efective after freezing.

March 9, 2013 at 1:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tessa's mum
Member
Posts: 81

For anyone using the raw pancreas -    I joined a  dog raw feeding  co-op in hopes of getting Tessa meat at a more afforable cost-

Great news is it looks like it will be an average of $1.80 a lb - already ground to my specks- which were 90 % meat , 10 % organ meats.   NO BONE

I will be adding bone meal , which I have been doing since we switched to raw a few months back.   This new dealer -  can get pancreas so I wanted to check my math with someone who is doing it this way


If we use 1.5 oz per cup food as a starting point .

Tessa gets 3 meals a day - so 4.5 oz pancreas would be added ( I'll follow the guide posted above)

4.5 oz times 30 days is 135 oz per month

making that into pounds is 8.5 LBs  so lets say 9 LBS per month


Does that seem reasonable amount to buy for a 32 lb Cattle Dog?  

She still could gain a few lbs - and seems to need that extra food to stay above 30 lbs .    Otherwise she is doing really good- poop is great .    I still give the B12 shots weekly as she seems to have a personaity change if we go beyond the 10 day mark-   she gets grummpy with the other dogs and skiddish , and seems to get heat intolerant- like lots of panting - 

We  give the B12 and her happy normal self comes back.

Sorry , I havent been on the forum lately , I've been running a Lost And Found Cattle Dog FB page which keeps me super busy .  And thanks to you all-  by following the guidelines here-  this has been a fairly easy dx to deal with - knock on wood.


Best regards Joy



--

Born May 2012. Australian Cattle Dog

Adopted Nov 2012.

( has had weigh gaining issues since adopted)

symptoms really started showing in Dec 2012.

Finally dx Jan 27th , 2013 at 8 months old

TLI  1.5 

Colb  236

Folate 7.2

started on tylan  1/12 teaspoon BID  Jan 23 2013 for SIB, upped to 1/8th t as she gained towards 30 lbs  ( mid way through switched to 10 days metro , then back to Tylan to finish up the 45 days )

enzmye D's 6x  at just under 3/4 teaspoon per 1 cup food - waiting 30 mins on enzymes action before feeding

and B12 shots started Jan 27, 2013.  have continued weekly - did the 6 then stopped by day 10 folded as she wasnt doing well- weekly seems to be her best amount

 2/3 c raw mix  1/3 c grainfree Earthborn pacific-  w/ vit/min/bonemeal ect in the raw mix we make  3 times daily ,   1/4 teasoon Canine Endrocine Suuport , 1/4 teaspoon- Whole Body Support - 1 pancreatrphin pill (  Standard Process)  per meal

  coconut oli 1 teas daily.

 DX weight 21.2 lbs   Current weight  36 lbs    goal weight  35-40 lbs.


 

June 26, 2014 at 11:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16651

Hi Joy.. i am so sorry that i had not responded to you about this. sooner..


Anyway........ my thought is to almost double what you came up with... and my reasoning is as follows:

The rule of thumb to start with is:

"One to three or four ounces of raw pancreas can replace one teaspoon of pancreatic extract" http://www.epi4dogs.com/enzyme.htm

You decided to start on the low end with 1.5 ounces per 1 cup... My suggestion would be to start on the high end with 3 ounces per 1 cup.


The reason why i am leaning towards the higher dose is because raw pancreas is not consistent in it's enzymatic potency...it can vary quite a bit from one bovine animal to the next. To over-come this issue, folks that do feed raw pancreas appear to eliminate this issue by just feeding a little more raw pancreas then what might be required...... and a little too much raw pancreas does not appear to cause any issues ;)


SO... if you go with 3 ounces of raw pancreas per 1 cup of food... and Tess gets 1 cup of food 3 times a day that would equal 9 ounces of raw pancreas daily.


9 ounces of pancreas x 30 days = 270 ounces = 16.87 pounds monthly ...rounded = 17 pounds of raw pancreas a month ;).


Again, my apologies for not getting back to you on this matter sooner!




--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

June 30, 2014 at 5:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Lubz
Member
Posts: 1

Hi I suspect that my 2 yr old gsd has epi. My dogs eat raw food, and because of the cost factor I wanted to try the raw pancreas. I can get hold of beef and sheep pancreas, however, when I phoned the abattoir regarding the beef pancreas, they asked me if I wanted it "acid-free" as the acid-containing pancreas can be harmful. Now I have no idea what this means because I assumed that I could just feed my dog fresh pancreas straight off the cow/sheep. Please advise as I'm not sure what to do.

--

September 17, 2015 at 10:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michele
Administrator
Posts: 7209

Hello and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I am not familiar with raw pancreas but I am going to contact one of our members who may be. In the meantime you might want to look at the brochure for our South Africa friends http://www.epi4dogs.com/PDF%20Files/SA%20EPI%20Brochure.pdf

--

 Michele




Jackie (10/15/08 - 11/8/15) - Diagnosed at 9 mos (09/09) - TLI 0.3 and low end of B12.  Pancreatin 8x dosing 3/4tsp per cup.   TOTW High Prarie, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor daily, probiotics and Duralactin in the am. Mega-E:  cisapride and metoclopramide.    Stable and happy 122lbs - thanks to all the beautiful souls on this forum, we could not have done it without YOU.

Dexter - Diagnosed 11/10 approx 3 yrs of age.   We failed fostering and now he has his forever home :)   At initial testing - TLI 1.2 (range 5-35) B12 254 (range 249-733) folate 20.2 (range 6.5-11.5)   Victor Hero Grain Free, Pancreatin 8x dosing is 3/4 tsp per cup, Trinfac-B Intrinsic Factor 3 x's weekly, probiotics with each meal and glucosamine chondroitin in the am.  Hypothyroidism:   Soloxine.    Stable and happy 97 lbs.


September 17, 2015 at 6:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Val
Member
Posts: 2633

Hi, Thanks for the contact Michele.

Sadly I have no clue what the *acid containing pancreas* meant. I have fed raw for years but NEVER raw pancreas. If I get a chance I'll look at the internet and see if I can come up with anything.


Val

--

Razzy, GSD.

EPI for 4 1/2 years... sadly lost to cancer 30th June 2011 aged 9 1/2 years.

September 18, 2015 at 7:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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