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Forum Home > General Discussion > Raw & Home-prepared food recipes for EPI dogs/cats

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Hi everyone, i have intended to start this thread weeks ago, but am just now getting around to doing it!!!!.... anyway.... what i am looking is for folks to share the ingredients of what is in the home-made-meals that they prepare for their EPI companion (if not using kibble or other commercial food) list it here and once we have a lot of suggestions, i will copy and paste them in a special section at the bottom of the "DIET" page http://www.epi4dogs.com/diet.htm.


For all those that will be reading these raw or home-made recipes... please know that no matter how good a diet "sounds" if you are going to prepare the meal yourself from scratch.... and serve it long-term....it needs to have the proper/sufficient amount of vitamins, minerals and bone. Please share with your vet or a vet nutritionist the composition of whatever you decide to feed your dog.

EXAMPLE:

My Izzy has EPI, she is 8 years old and weighs 45-48 lbs.

In the past, we were lucky, she was able to eat low fiber (grain-free foods) commercial kibble, sometimes i'd give raw, and sometimes i'd make home-made and sometimes i'd mix it all up... and she always did fine.... however recently, she developed Diabetes (we are still not sure if this is real diabetes or transient diabetes).... so.... to find our footing with the diabetes part and to still manage her EPI.... this is what i have been feeding her.

The Stew: I make a chicken stew in the crock pot... i buy raw chicken thighs, peel / cut off the fat, fill 1/2 the crock pot with the raw chicken thighs, throw in about 1/2-1 cup of whatever "organ" meats i have,  peel and chop up 3 medium size sweet potatoes, then i add as much raw kale as will fit in the crock pot and pour in 1.5-2 cups of water with 1 finely chopped clove of garlic. 

The Carb/Fiber: i bake 1 raw sweet potato in the microwave every couple of days, peel it..

The Home-Prepared Chicken Stew Diet for Izzy that she (for now) gets twice a day:

 

  • 3/4 cup of chicken stew
  • 1/4 cup of baked sweet potato ... mashed
  • 1 tab of Vetri Science "Canine" Plus (for minierals & vitamins)
  • 1/2 tsp of steamed Bone Meal
  • 1 tsp of cold pressed Coconut Oil 

so far, this is working very well for us. Soon i will be trying other things. I hope this give an example to others what/how they might post their raw / home-prepared meals.

 



--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

April 25, 2013 at 4:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

conniej
Member
Posts: 166

I always worry if I am giving her enough food if I do this. When Zoe was first diagnosed I cooked for her but I was worried she didnt get enough nutrition.

--

Zoe is now ten years old. After one year on cooked homemade I am changing her to all raw. She was diagnosed 8.5 years ago and is doing great.

April 28, 2013 at 9:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Hi Connie..... well... i finally have some answers... Karen (Hondo's mom)  helped me with this over the weekend (thanks Karen!)...


HOW MUCH FOOD TO FEED ?

Dogs that are fed raw should get 1% to 3% of their weight. With EPI dogs, start with 4% of their weight.  For example,if  your EPI dogs weighs 78lbs.... then in the beginning of treating EPI start with a calculation of:

 

  • 78lbs x 0.04 = 3.12
  • 3.12 x 16 ounces = 49.92 ounces per day 

 

If you find that your best friend is starting to get more than a little pleasantly plump... try backing down on the amount to something like 3% of their weight:

 

  • 78lbs x 0.03 = 2.34
  • 2.34 x 16 ounces = 37.44 ounces per day

 


SUGGESTED FOOD-TYPE RATIO'S :

***Always keep detailed notes when preparing your own dog food- -as what works for one dog may not work for another...and you may need to adjust the diet's ratio until you find the right balance for your individual dog...if possible, work with a nutritionist.... and you can ALWAYS tell what is or is not working by (1) weight gain/loss (2) quality of poo*** 


5-10% organ meat (liver, kidney, lungs, pancreas,gizzards, heart) Some consider heart a muscle meat other consider it as one of the top organ meats to serve.Kidney has the most packed nutrition)

10-20% bone. Normal dogs should have approx 25% bone matter..many EPI dogs have issues with too much bone, so start with half the amount (or use Bone Meal) and work your way up to see exactly how much bone your dog can or cannot handle.

0-30% vegetables All veggies need to be cooked and mashedGreen veggies, work best, or small amounts of sweet potato may be used. Which veggies and how much all depends on your individual dog. 

The remainder % should be all Protein (meat/fish) skinned, defatted and must be "ground".

Vitamins & Minerals Be sure to add a good source multivitamin with minerals or ask a vet nutritionist which supplements should be added to the diet to make sure it is balanced.

Oils With EPI dogs, we find that adding daily (unless another concurrent condition prohibits fats/oils)... either or / or alternate EFA (fish oils) and/or cold-pressed coconut oil as this greatly helps dogs with poor skin and coat. The recommended dasages are: EFA's suggested at 180mg per 10 lbs per day, or on alternate days give ½ to 1 teaspoon of cold pressed (virgin) coconut oil.


http://vet.osu.edu/vmc/home-made-diets is one source for a vet nutritional consultation with regards to preparing a home-prepared diet for your pup.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

April 29, 2013 at 12:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Also... there is a vet-run website to help pet owners understand nutritional needs for pets via home-made diet along with a Nutritional Library. For those that are interested... check it out http://www.petdiets.com/Library/Articles just remember... a lot of the "advice" given on most websites are for "healthy" dogs, so you will always need to give consideration to the fact that you are dealing with a dog with a health condition that debunks standard recommendations.

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

April 29, 2013 at 12:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Val
Member
Posts: 2633

This is a really good breakdown of raw feeding and right on the button... the percentages are spot on.

I haven't fed homecooked so I will leave that to others but the raw info is good and an excellent  place to start and tweak to suit the individual dog.


Val

--

Razzy, GSD.

EPI for 4 1/2 years... sadly lost to cancer 30th June 2011 aged 9 1/2 years.

May 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

One of our members shared an actual home-prepared diet put forth by a Veterinary Nutritionist at Georgia Veterinary Specialists.... this is an example of an diet plan for an individual dog based on age, weight, medical needs and activity level for this dog which may differ from your dog from your dog's needs that we will share here.  It is a great example of what you need to think of when deciding to prepare your own food. Please feel free to contact the Georgia Veterinary Specialists  http://www.gvsvet.com/ to prepare a diet specifically tailored for your individual dog .


UPDATE ON THIS VET DESIGNED DIET........ IT DID NOT WORK.....SPECIFICALLY THE QUINONA INGREDIENT CAUSED SID TO HAPPEN..........

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 9, 2013 at 12:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JSB
Member
Posts: 36

Epi4Dogs at May 9, 2013 at 12:55 PM

One of our members shared an actual home-prepared diet put forth by a Veterinary Nutritionist at Georgia Veterinary Specialists.... this is an AWESOME example of an diet plan for an individual dog based on age, weight, medical needs and activity level for this dog which may differ from your dog from your dog's needs that we will share here.  It is a great example of what you need to think of when deciding to prepare your own food. Please feel free to contact the Georgia Veterinary Specialists  http://www.gvsvet.com/ to prepare a diet specifically tailored for your individual dog .


I will include the PDF of this diet here http://www.epi4dogs.com/PDF%20Files/Isabella's_diet_PDF.pdf

Isabella will start this diet this week. I had to wait for the "Balance IT" to arrive.  I will keep you posted.  If she responds well to it,  I plan on scaling up and making a month supply at a time and freezing it in portion sized packages.

--

Joyce Bernstein. GSD Isabella ("Issa")age 3.4 years DZ EPI @ 6 mos. 72 pounds and holding!

May 12, 2013 at 11:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Hi Joyce.... thanks SO much for sharing this diet with us... i will be very interested in hearing how Isabella responds...i personally tried using Quinoa with my Izzy a few years ago... it did not work for us- -but we have great luck with sweet potato--and i can use some of the peas but with my Izzy she has to have less peas then what they recommend- -too much and she develops SIBO...... and i also know of someone else here who tried Quinoa in their home-made diet and the dog either kept getting SIBO or the poos were never really good... until they removed the quinoa... and yet... i have heard of other folks with EPI dogs who have used noodles, buckwheat groats, quinoa  in their home-made diets and it worked just fine for their EPI dog...so..........keep really good detailed notes on this... it will be interesting to see how well Isabella's EPI condition responds to this orif she has issues with certain ingredients and if so, which ones.


I am so thankful to you for sharing this with us....i even learned some interesting information about canola oil....very interesting!


The Balance It is a fantastic product... i have used that before and once i am done with the VetriScience i have on hand now.....i will alternate and use the Balance It again. 


Looking forward to hearing your feed-back on this diet!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 13, 2013 at 1:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Michaela
Member
Posts: 273

Hi Joyce - my Nikki eats a home cooked diet and she is doing great on it, hope it will work for your girl also :)

 

We tried feeding Quinoa at first but she wasn't able to digest it properly no matter how long I cooked it.  I can tell you though that any grain we cook for our dogs needs to be cooked longer than we would cook it for us.  So I have doubts that cooking it according to package directions will work in the first place.

I switched Nikki over to Sweet Potato and the improvement in her poops was instant.  The SP does provide a lot of fiber but we haven't had any issues with it so far but every dog is different.  Good luck with switching her over, Nikki loves mealtime...LOL!!!

--

My GSD "Nikki" was diagnosed with EPI on 12/08/2010, TLI 1.07.  Receives weekly B12 injections. 

Pork Tenderloin & Sweet Potato, 1 tsp of Viokase w/each meal soaked for 20 minutes.  She weighs 62 lbs.

Probiotics: Proviable DC & Lactobacillus Acidophilus from Monica Segal.

Tylan:  1/4 tsp twice a day

"Nikki" GSD 11/21/2009 (EPI, IBD, Food Allergies, Atopy)

"Heidi" GSD (02/10/1995 - 02/21/2009) RIP Sweet Girl



May 13, 2013 at 1:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

thanks Michaela for mentioning that.... when i tried the buckwheat groats... i cooked cooked and actually rinsed it twice too..... but Izzy still did not do so good on it...... 

Because i am now juggling EPI + borderline Diabetes.. i have discovered that with the EPI and her blood glucose levels... the best "filler" for Izzy is  Best:  cottage cheese  Second best:  sweet potato  


--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 13, 2013 at 2:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Hi Joyce, just wondering if the "Balance It" has arrived yet, and if so.... have you started the home-prepared meal and how is it going??????????????

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 16, 2013 at 12:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Karen
Member
Posts: 1831

Hondo is doing well on the quinoa as well as I know another EPI dog doing well on it, too.

--
Karen & Jaime-Lyn
DOB 3/31/11
cTLI 7/9/13 3.0  10/19/13 2.4
EPI, low B12, SLO
Raw Fed
-----------------------------
Always in my heart
My Angel Hondo
EPI, IBD, SIBO, PLE, Weekly B12 injections
Raw Fed
7/19/04-5/22/13
May 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

Thanks Karen.... it's is good to hear of who or how many EPI dogs do well on a certain ingredients or not.....and.... it also shows once again how not all EPI dogs respond the same to the same food!  


I think one of the requirements of EPI is to keep the owner on it's toes at all times!!!!!!!! :D

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JSB
Member
Posts: 36

I spent a half a day trying to "decode" the recipe (which is really very poorly written) – and preparing her a home cooked meal. Note I am a very experienced cook and a restaurant owner so this should have been a snap! My kitchen looks like a scene from the Invasion of the body snatchers. I used my gram scale and although they say that scaling up the recipe by 5 results in a 2 and 1/2 day supply I came up short by the half day. I couldn’t find liquid fish oil so I had to puncture those lovely gel caps... Did you know they squirt all over the place? Very discouraged.

Because I travel a lot I need to be able to prepare at least a month of food at a time. That’s 112.5 pounds of protein !!! Never mind all the veggies and sweet potatoes...

Thinking it is time to go back to the EPI4dogs food page and explore a high quality commercial diet.

As an added note, Isabella weighed 63.7 pounds on 4/30 and today she weighed in at 61.5. Feeling a little discouraged. Just a day in the life of a mother with an EPI dog!

--

Joyce Bernstein. GSD Isabella ("Issa")age 3.4 years DZ EPI @ 6 mos. 72 pounds and holding!

May 16, 2013 at 5:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

OMG Joyce... i am dying laughing... i know EXACTLY what you mean about those damn fish oil capsules squirting all over the place.


A few years ago i bought a $300 grinder to grind my own meat for Izzy along with all kinds of veggies... i screwed up the %s of carb vs protein (i had WAY to many carbs) that poor Izzy developed SIBO... talking about having to give your dog antibiotics from your home cooking !!!:D


Any way... i finally got a handle on things this time around trying to control Izzy's EPI + Diabetes... i use almost 90% meat 10% carbs (and often i am now finding cottage cheese works best for us with just a little sweet potato).. and just give them quality all around dog vitamins with minerals and add bone meal.  Izzy lost weight too on the first home-made diet.... but with this new diet that i am doing... she is holding steady...and her diabetes is pretty much controlled..... so i am very pleased!  Oh... by the way... i now make my life easy and toss everything in the crock pot... makes enough food for a week. 

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 17, 2013 at 8:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JSB
Member
Posts: 36

Epi4Dogs at May 17, 2013 at 8:20 PM

OMG Joyce... i am dying laughing... i know EXACTLY what you mean about those damn fish oil capsules squirting all over the place.


A few years ago i bought a $300 grinder to grind my own meat for Izzy along with all kinds of veggies... i screwed up the %s of carb vs protein (i had WAY to many carbs) that poor Izzy developed SIBO... talking about having to give your dog antibiotics from your home cooking !!!:D


Any way... i finally got a handle on things this time around trying to control Izzy's EPI + Diabetes... i use almost 90% meat 10% carbs (and often i am now finding cottage cheese works best for us with just a little sweet potato).. and just give them quality all around dog vitamins with minerals and add bone meal.  Izzy lost weight too on the first home-made diet.... but with this new diet that i am doing... she is holding steady...and her diabetes is pretty much controlled..... so i am very pleased!  Oh... by the way... i now make my life easy and toss everything in the crock pot... makes enough food for a week. 

Did I mention that Issa LOVES LOVES LOVES the home made food? Who wouldn't. I had leftover puréed veggies so I added some yogurt, salt & pepper and we had a great soup for dinner ourselves!

I have 2 large crock pots – all the ingredients wouldn’t fit in for 2 and half days worth. This is a dog on 2400 calories a day and still maintaining her weight is a challenge.!

I used a 20 QUART restaurant sized pot (and a boat oar to stir it LOL).   I need to make large quantities at a time because of my schedule.

So in the spirit of a true EPI dog owner, I am experimenting!

I have decided to try Natural Balance Chicken and Sweet potato kibble for 1/2 her meal mixed with the home made. That way I cut down prep time by at least 1/2 as well as those ungodly amounts of protein, veggies and starch. I also bought chubs of frozen Bravo vegetable mix. No more cleaning, cutting, and chopping/grinding an assortment of veggies! And in an emergency I will stock some of the canned version of the Natural Balance.

I will keep you posted. Every day I put on my gypsy outfit with a purple turban and go out and “read” her stools. Color good – check!, smells “normal – check!,” size “normal!” – check!

Oh how I love this girl!

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Joyce Bernstein. GSD Isabella ("Issa")age 3.4 years DZ EPI @ 6 mos. 72 pounds and holding!

May 18, 2013 at 7:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Michaela
Member
Posts: 273

Joyce...I am glad you came back to write about your experience with this recipe.  I must have read it three times and was a little confused.  It is a lot of work but you get into a routine after a while.  I cook enough food for four days for Nikki at a time and the only thing I don't look forward to cooking is the meat.  It takes me forever to peel all the fat off the pork tenderloin to the point where I sometimes end up with a blister on my finger...ouch.


Nikki gets the pork and sweet potato and that's it...no veggies...LOL!!!  I bake the sweet potatoes and boil the pork.  I do run the sweet potatoes through my Vitamix blender until it looks like baby food and then I add in some of her supplements and divide it up in containers for each meal.  IDK why you have to measure the SP in cups, mine is in ounces which is easier to me.


The weight loss on a home prepared diet is not unusal, it happened to us too you just have to adjust her calories.


The fish oil is very tricky...LOL!!!  I used to get it in my eyes, hair on my cabinets until I decided to just throw it in the bowl.  I use Monica Segals by the way...very good quality.  If you are not ready to throw in the towel I have a suggestion for you.  I would hire Monica (I know an additional expense :( to adjust your recipe to make it easier for you and balanced of course.  http://www.monicasegal.com/

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My GSD "Nikki" was diagnosed with EPI on 12/08/2010, TLI 1.07.  Receives weekly B12 injections. 

Pork Tenderloin & Sweet Potato, 1 tsp of Viokase w/each meal soaked for 20 minutes.  She weighs 62 lbs.

Probiotics: Proviable DC & Lactobacillus Acidophilus from Monica Segal.

Tylan:  1/4 tsp twice a day

"Nikki" GSD 11/21/2009 (EPI, IBD, Food Allergies, Atopy)

"Heidi" GSD (02/10/1995 - 02/21/2009) RIP Sweet Girl



May 18, 2013 at 10:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

JSB
Member
Posts: 36

Michaela at May 18, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Joyce...I am glad you came back to write about your experience with this recipe.  I must have read it three times and was a little confused.  It is a lot of work but you get into a routine after a while.  I cook enough food for four days for Nikki at a time and the only thing I don't look forward to cooking is the meat.  It takes me forever to peel all the fat off the pork tenderloin to the point where I sometimes end up with a blister on my finger...ouch.


Nikki gets the pork and sweet potato and that's it...no veggies...LOL!!!  I bake the sweet potatoes and boil the pork.  I do run the sweet potatoes through my Vitamix blender until it looks like baby food and then I add in some of her supplements and divide it up in containers for each meal.  IDK why you have to measure the SP in cups, mine is in ounces which is easier to me.


The weight loss on a home prepared diet is not unusal, it happened to us too you just have to adjust her calories.


The fish oil is very tricky...LOL!!!  I used to get it in my eyes, hair on my cabinets until I decided to just throw it in the bowl.  I use Monica Segals by the way...very good quality.  If you are not ready to throw in the towel I have a suggestion for you.  I would hire Monica (I know an additional expense :( to adjust your recipe to make it easier for you and balanced of course.  http://www.monicasegal.com/

Thanks for the suggestions Michaela.  Not going to throw in the towel yet!  And I still make loads of treats (we train with them so we go thru a lot!) in the dehydrator - with the enzymes in it.  

I did finally find fish oil in a bottle.  No doubt I will spill it.  The stuff is out to get me!.  

If you read the whole 9 pages of the diet (without falling into a coma) it explains why they do it in grams - I get that and have a gram scale - but then they switch back and forth on some of the measures depending on what it is.  I have talked to the nutritionist who designed the diet and have the calorie count down pretty well.  Also - I have to add morecalories on the days she is extra active - Issa is the Girl on Fire!

I am already working on the adjustments to make it into a routine - but I need to make so much of it because I travel a lot.  My dog sitter has a baby and I can't expect her to cook for my dog, so having a large supply on hand is a neccessity.  By mixing it with a high quality commercial diet I have more flexibility and a back up plan if something comes up and I can't get back in time to make more food!  And Issa will already be adjusted to the commerical diet so we shouldn't have any problems on that count.

--

Joyce Bernstein. GSD Isabella ("Issa")age 3.4 years DZ EPI @ 6 mos. 72 pounds and holding!

May 18, 2013 at 4:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jill
Administrator
Posts: 3574

Oh how I wish Mickey could eat meat. He has hyperuricosuria, so his intake of meat protein is very limited. Also he has chronic pancreatitis so his fat intake is under 8%. When he didn't have pancreatitis, I had a diet made up through my vet at UCDavis. It was similar to the Strombeck diet. I paid 350.00 for them to come up with a diet that was cooked white macaroni and 4 hardboiled eggs a day, fish oil and Balance It. Wow how lovely is that? He looked even more like a fireplug, loveing the macaroni and egg(love the egg farts too) but I added cooked green bean for color. He loved the diet. But 4 eggs a day. He has high cholesterol(not having to do with what he eats however dogs don't supposedly get high cholesterol from what they eat?) Anyway, I would cook it all, throw it in a blender and pulse it to just mix it and add some water. Split that up between 3 meals. Wow, he was in heaven. I did that for 4 months then he had surgery and got pancreatitis and I haven't gone back to that diet. I just couldn't get over 2.5 dozen eggs per week for a 20lb dog. Now I use some of Strombecks diets for dogs and cats by using just the cooked egg whites with rice(whats with the white on white?) mixed in with the vegetarian kibble diet. Oh how I wish I could make him some good beef chunk stew with LOTS OF MEAT>

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   Jill-  Washington State

Mickey 6/21/99 - 8/29/2014 

17.5 lb  jack russell, chronic pancreatitis, hyperuricosuria,high blood pressure, hypothyroid, spinal stenosis

diet of  hard boiled eggs, macaroni,  RC Hepatic, mashed potato

2 #2 Dianes enzymes 6x premeal

 2.5 mg Amlodipine, .15mg soloxine am/pm, 100mg ursodiol started for gall bladder thinning

arthritis:  6.25mg tramadol 1x/day, 12.5mg gabapentin every 12 hrs,  Assisi soft loop used on back and elbow, 1- 540meq potassium citrate nightly

Denamarin once a day, 1/16 t tylan (150mg)  2x/day ,  Senilife started 12/14/13, Trixsyn sirup for arthritis, .1mg Adequan weekly by shot. 75mg Tylan 2x./day for SIBO

Optimmune for Dry eyes

 Kiya is Mickeys sister, 3/4 aussie, 1/4 blue heeler born 9/2006.  She thinks she is a 44 lb jack russell who tries to heel Mickey!!

TJ is the newest addition.  He is in the bottom picture with Kiya.  He was born 7/05/2015. 

I am not a vet, just a pet owner sharing what experiences I have had in helping my dogs with other pet owners.  If you have an emergency please call your vet.





May 18, 2013 at 5:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Epi4Dogs
Site Owner
Posts: 16730

you ladies made me laugh so hard reading your posts.... thank YOU!!!!!


Looking forward to hearing about the adjustments and what the results are!

--

Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb SWD, Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Stable 9+ yrs! Once stable, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each meal, but after almost 4 years of stabilization... had to increase the amount of enzymes to 3/4 teaspoon with each meal. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil one day and 1 tsp salmon oil next day, and also give canned sardines packed without salt or canned herring for extra omega oils.... until she developed Diabetes and now cannot tolerate higher fat foods.

In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. We also discovered that now, at 8+ years old, she not only has EPI, but also Diabetes, Low Thyroid and High Cholesterol.  Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the kindness of so many here on epi4dogs and  is currently  doing extra-ordinarily well. If anyone could spend a day with Izzy, they would never guess that she has any health problems!  Because of Izzy's concurrent conditions of Diabetes and High Cholesterol we had to make changes to our daily EPI routine. We had to alter the fiber, type of fiber and the fat content her diet. She is now on an all home-made diet which she does best on and has even been able to reduce the insuline (Vetsulin:pork-based insulin) . Because of the diet change to all home-made i no longer worry about hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia- -she is much more even-keeled with a diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, sometimes a free range egg, cottage cheese,  fish oil+vitamins and bone meal. We tried Novolin N a human synthetic RNA insulin.... but Izzy did not do well on it. aside from all of Izzy's health issues.... she continues to wake up every day full of joy and a great sense of humor!

I am not a vet.  All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal expereinces, observations, information gleaned from EPI research, and information shared with me by EPI researchers....that hopefully may help others. Please always share anything and everything recommended on this forum with your vet.

May 19, 2013 at 8:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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