Early morning acid reflux mystery

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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arlenetickner
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Posts: 5
Location: Bogotá
Country: Colombia
Pet name: Nina
My name: Arlene Tickner

Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by arlenetickner » 30 Jul 2021, 15:57

Hello everyone,
I am wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem. Our EPI dog Nina wakes us frequently anywhere between 3 and 5 AM with what I assume is acid reflux, a clear, foamy, mucus filled regurgitation that is quite loud. She receives small enzyme treated raw food meals 4 times a day, omeprazole before her AM/PM meals, 1/16 tylan in AM/PM meals (she seems to be a lifer), a Proviable each day, and B12 shots every two weeks. I have started adding Slippery Elm to her PM meals but it doesn't seem to help much. The only recent change to her diet was a switch from a veal based raw meal to a buffalo one, both made by the same company and containing otherwise identical ingredients. Her poops actually seem to be less voluminous and loose after switching so it is not clear that the increased reflux is associated with this. Any thoughts as to what might be going on and how to take care of it?

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 800
Country: United States
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 30 Jul 2021, 21:51

Hi Arlene, and welcome to the forum! I have definitely heard similar stories from other members, but have not experienced it myself (and, sadly, I can't remember the answer to the problem). Someone will come along & share their ideas, but in the meantime, I just wanted to say hi & we're glad you're here..---Pam & Tucker in Florida
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Olesia711
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Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Jul 2021, 23:29

HI and welcome to our Forum.

The first suggestion is to give Nina a tiny snack just before she goes to bed at night. this often helps.
However, i do have a question... you are only giving 1/16 tsp of Tylan? As a GSD... i am assuming NIna weighs maybe 60-75 lbs? If she is getting the Tylan to treat SID, she should be getting 1/4 tsp twice a day.... if she is just getting maintenance Tylan... you might need to increase it a pinch... maybe to 1/8tsp??
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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arlenetickner
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Location: Bogotá
Country: Colombia
Pet name: Nina
My name: Arlene Tickner

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by arlenetickner » 31 Jul 2021, 08:30

Thanks Olesia, sadly, Nina is a very underweight Belgian Malinois, clinging to around 36 pounds and unable to gain weight after over a year of trying. Her normal dose of Tylan would be 1/8 teaspoon and she seems to be stable on a maintenance dose of 1/16. I am going to try a small snack before bed! I have read that some people have had luck with yogurt and slippery elm but not sure that this would be the case here.

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Johnnycake
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My name: MacKenzie

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Johnnycake » 31 Jul 2021, 09:04

Johnny has this issue if he goes too long in between meals - if he skips breakfast he'll have this issue in the evening, if he eats dinner too early, in the morning. When I asked about it here it was suggested to either feed him dinner later, or a snack in between - and that fixed the issue for us! The pro and prebiotics help a lot with the quality of his poop but this issue (for him - other dogs might be different!) seems to be directly related to when and how much he is eating. It also helps if his "snack" is something substantial, i.e. a small portion of his kibble instead of some treats.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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My name: olesia

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Jul 2021, 11:17

Hi Arlene, Let us know if the small before bed snack works...
BTW.... i just realized who you were! I know we've chatted a lot privately, this is the first picture i have seen of Nina... She is lovely... although i am sorry she is so underweight
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 800
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 31 Jul 2021, 11:21

Arlene, that is heartbreaking, and I'm sure you've tried everything, but just in case---

You should be feeding that sweet girl 150% of the amount you would feed her at her normal weight,

So, if she should weigh 60, and the bag says 4 cups for that weight, you would feed her 6. Sorry, I'm sure you know this, but like I said, I'm sharing just in case.

I love a Malinois. At our camp, the local PD brings theirs by to show us all their skills, and they are such pleasant, smart dogs. ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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arlenetickner
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Posts: 5
Location: Bogotá
Country: Colombia
Pet name: Nina
My name: Arlene Tickner

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by arlenetickner » 31 Jul 2021, 11:37

Olesia, yes, its me, I was hoping to give you a break from my constant emails by consulting with the Forum! May I ask what a suitable snack at night might look like? I assume treated with enzyme? I am going to increase her slippery elm as well and see if we might need to take a break from Omeprazole. And once that is figured out I will start experimenting again with weight gain strategies. We really have tried everything...

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 800
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 01 Aug 2021, 12:23

Yes, the snack should be treated with enzymes, too. If it were me, I'd give a scoop of grain-free canned food, to ensure she will gobble it up. You are just trying to keep her tummy from getting too empty & producing bile. Personally, at her weight I think I'd be feeding her as much as she will eat. She is precious, and she is lucky to have such a caring mama. ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
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Re: Early morning acid reflux mystery

Post by Madelon » 01 Aug 2021, 12:51

Hi Arlene. Nina is beautiful! But sorry to hear she is struggling with her weight after so long. I dealt with the morning bile throw up for a while and fed an extra small enzymed meal before bed - after a while I no longer needed to do that, however, from time to time for no apparent reason he will throw up in the am but it's so rare I don't worry.

Are you supplementing B12 to help with the weight gain? And has Olesia suggested trying organic cold pressed coconut oil?
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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