Blue is vomiting

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chaganibm
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Blue
My name: Christine

Blue is vomiting

Post by chaganibm » 02 Aug 2021, 22:35

Hi again,
I thought I had Blue's regiment down. But I noticed This morning he he had liquid diarrhea, 7am, and at 6Pm mix poo but still diarrhea, then at 9pm he vomited his food with a few whole kibbles.

What was working.
Soak @ meal for 30 mins
AM meal (between 6 am - 7am)
  • Sport Elite dog food: 3/4 cups
    Pan-tenex enzymes: 1 tsp
    Trinfac-B for B12: 1/4 to 1/3 capsule
PM meal (5 PM)
  • Sport Elite dog food: 3/4 cups
    Pan-tenex enzymes: 1 tsp
    Slippery Elm: 1/8 tsp
    Proviable-DS: whole capsule in for whole incubation time.
Four days ago.
Blue seemed to be doing well his poops where getting better but still soft and a large volume of poop for how much I feed him. So, I decided to take a 1/3 of his food and grind it in a food processor (1/4 cup ground + 1/2 normal) so that the enzyme could reach more of the food.
Two days ago.
I had to open an new jar of enzymes and I thought well I'm only giving him 3/4 cup of food per meal so I will give him 3/4 tsp of enzymes.

I have no idea what to do now. I do not understand how to determine what to do with the vomiting and diarrhea. The bad thing about Sport Elite herding dog food is that everything is BLACK. So, his vomit was black black with as I said a 7 pieces of his kibble roughly 3 hours after he ate.
  1. . Does this mean I should just go back to 1 tsp of enzymes per 3/4 cup of dog food for now?
  2. . I have a jar of Tylan Soluble but don't know how to administer it to Blue (he is 22 lbs. now). I purchased it from Chewy and the label just says Give as Instructed Tylan Powder 100mg. Do you just add the powder Tylan to the food + water+ enzyme and let sit for the 30 mins? I have a scale that accurate to 0.01 gram
Nervous for Blue

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Aug 2021, 12:18

so sorry that Blue is not doing well....

First.... if the poo is tarry black.... bring him to the vet.... it doesn't sound like it is tarry, but i wanted to mention this first, just in case, tarry black could mean an internal bleed.... and if this is the case, then a vet needs to see him.

If not tarry, it sounds like one of a couple of possibilities (in no particular order):
1. something is not right with the new container of PanTenex enzymes.
2. he got into something that he shouldn't have
3. he really does need that 1 tsp of enzymes vs. 3/4 tsp.

SO.... what to do:

(1) If the poo is not tarry.. then i would give him some Tylan now, because if the problem is #2 or #3 that i mentioned above, you should see some improvement once the Tylan is administered.

Since Blue is 22lbs, give him 1/16 to 1/8 tsp of Tylan powder. My first option is to NOT mix it in his meal (he may be one of those dogs that hate the taste of tylan and then you will have wasted an entire meal with enzymes) but instead, either pour the designated amount into an empty gel cap and give after he eats a little bit.... OR.... pour the designated amount into a little pouch that you can form with something like cream cheese. Give this amount twice a day with breakfast and dinner... technically you should give Tylan to get SID under good control for 45 days..... but since this might be a bug or something he got into,.... if you see positive results, try giving for 14 days/twice a day. (you should be able to tell via no vomiting and poos improving)

(2) Give Tylan first and only do this first so you can assess if after giving the Tylan antibiotic a couple of days if it is helping (or not).....
Then, once you can make this assessment, go back to giving 1 tsp of enzymes instead of 3/4 tsp of enzymes. Give this a few days and try to assess if this is helping or not (you should be able to tell via the poos)

If the Tylan doesn't really make that much of a difference and then if the added enzymes also don't make much of a difference or if the added enzymes actually make things worse... like the vomiting, then i would suspect the enzymes. Very rarely is there a problem with enzymes, but i have learned never to say never. In which case, i would contact the company.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Madelon » 03 Aug 2021, 13:58

I'm so sorry Blue is doing poorly. Olesia gave great advice as always so I don't want to muddy the waters but I noticed you were giving slippery elm only once a day - typically we recommend giving it twice a day am and pm so you might want to try adding it to the morning meal.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2027
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Aug 2021, 14:03

good catch Madelon! Thanks!

Try the added Slippery Elm after the Tylan and then the increased enzymes.... see if it helps or hinders.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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chaganibm
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Blue
My name: Christine

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by chaganibm » 03 Aug 2021, 17:17

Thank you, so much I went back to 1 tsp enzymes and I am about to start him with his 1st dose of Tylan.

Grateful,
Christine

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2027
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Aug 2021, 17:41

Christine,
Since you already started back with the 1 tsp of enzyme... hold of on the Tylan for 2 days.... give the enzymes a chance to see if that is what caused the problem or if not and he needs Tylan......

If you do both at the same time, then you will not be able to figure out what might have triggered this problem......
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 798
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 03 Aug 2021, 19:54

Sport Dog Buffalo/Sweet Potato produces some super black poop. Just thought I'd add that. Not tarry, but very black. ---P
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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chaganibm
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Blue
My name: Christine

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by chaganibm » 25 Aug 2021, 17:13

I was suppose to be posting how well Blue is doing and that is back to a his EPI normal. Then...
I noticed the past week or two he started with the burping. He threw up once three days ago: it was a lot of grass and his poop where normal for him. Thus I just thought he ate something he should not have, since he eats everything and anything he can get his mouth on. About 5 mins ago I hear him throwing up - yellow, slimy liquid.

Back when I originally started this post - I had increased his enzymes to 1 tsp at the same time I started the 2 weeks of tylan. I reread your post and realized I made a mistake but since I change both already I kept with it. While he was on that he got better, no burping, and his poops got better - soft logs. I stayed with the 1 tsp enzymes after the 2 weeks where up.

So, I guess I am going to go back to 1/16 to 1/8 tsp tylan for the full 45 day regiment. Hopefully the tylan will work again, then maybe try to go back down on the enzymes.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 798
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Aug 2021, 20:44

When you take him off the tylan, be sure & do it gradually. ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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chaganibm
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Blue
My name: Christine

Re: Blue is vomiting

Post by chaganibm » 27 Aug 2021, 08:35

Thank you. How gradually is gradually?

If he is on 1/8 tsp. AM & PM for 45 days. Do you suggest 1/16 tsp. for a week?

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