Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Barb » 15 Nov 2021, 15:49

Hi, Elizabeth,

I am so glad to read the good update. Whiskey seems to be turning the corner. Finding the balance at the beginning can seem so frustrating. But when you finally hit the right combinations and see your pup feeling so good, it is worth it all. Those are gorgeous pictures of him. His coloring is a lot like our Madison's. I love the reddish hue. And what a beautiful backdrop. I lived at the foot of the Adirondacks for a year many years ago and it was beautiful there. For many years we went back for a week or two each year. Lovely.

Keep the good news coming. Whiskey looks great!

Barb

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 15 Nov 2021, 22:12

Thanks Barb, yes I think my boy is beautiful too! For fun I am sending a puppy photo along with my many poop photos to make the post a little more appealing. lol Thanks for the encouragement!
Ok, this is definitely getting confusing and I had to develop a computer spreadsheet to keep track of all of these meds, amounts and notes. I also inserted my poop photos into the spreadsheet so that I could do a better job at analyzing what I did and what his poop looked like in relation to the various changes. I feel more organized now but also realized that I didn't always do a good job keeping track each day. Hopefully this will help me do better from now on.
How many hours does it usually take a poop to reflect a change in medication? I heard about the carrot method but Whiskey wouldn't eat the carrots.
I wanted to ask if other EPI dogs have obsessions with tissues. Whiskey loves them and I know they can't be good for him as they are ALL fiber and I know he shouldn't have much fiber. I have last nights poop that was yellowish and looks like there are fibers in it. We did catch him eating one so I am thinking that it might affect the poop, am I correct? So today we had two better poops which I am glad. Yes we got some snow up here in the Adirondacks, winter is here!
I am about 22 days after I started the tylan and I was wondering when I should do the proviable-forte? I feel like I am still trying to find out what is still making his poop soft, should I wait until he has more consistent poops?
At this point I am giving him 1/4 tsp Tylan - 2 times a day; 1/8 tsp Slippery elm powder 2x day, 1.25 tsp of enzyme per cup of food. 2 -B12 pills at one meal/day. I feed him usually 1 cup 3-4 times a day whenever he seems hungry. I just give him the antibiotic at two of the feedings (usually late morning and evening). I also have reduced the kinds of dry food I feed him (no longer feed Liver care - just Canidae Salmon that I have fed him for years) and limit enhance foods (cooked eggs, canned lamb/tripe) to just grated cheese as I needed something to make sure to get him to eat. He is very picky and I figured all of the powders on the food had to taste bad and I needed something to get him to eat. I limited it to just the cheese in case the other stuff I was putting on his food was negatively affecting him. I did stop the denamarin because I used the can food to get him to take the pill. If you think I should start that again let me know. Once I know how many hours it takes his system to react to medicine changes I can further analyze what conditions were such that created better poops than other days. After going through my notes I am disappointed that I wasn't as consistent in record keeping or amounts as I had thought or hoped I was being. Guess I have more work to do on being patient!
Once again I am so very grateful for everyone's help and support and look to your guidance at this stage of our journey to Whiskey Wellness.
Take good care!
..
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whiskey 11-15-21; 5 pm
whiskey 11-15-21; 5 pm
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whiskey11-14-21; 9 pm
whiskey11-14-21; 9 pm
IMG_20211114_210535745.jpg (1.36 MiB) Viewed 502 times
Whiskey snowy face
Whiskey snowy face
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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 15 Nov 2021, 22:14

Here is one more photo of this morning.
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whiskdey 11-15-21; 8 am
whiskdey 11-15-21; 8 am
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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 20 Nov 2021, 10:18

I started Whiskey on the Proviable-Forte supplement yesterday. I am giving it at a reduced level of 2 ml – 2 times a day because Alesia said to start slow. How long do I give him the reduced amount? Do I give the paste until it is gone? What should I expect to happen to his poops with the supplement?
Whiskey poop is about the same. Nothing seems to get it past a certain level of firmness or color. Do EPI dogs ever get perfect poop or do they always stay at a level that is less than normal?
Thanks for anyone’s input, as always, its greatly appreciated.

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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Nov 2021, 12:24

Hi Elizabeth, Many EPi dogs achieve normal poos... but every so often along comes an EPI dog who just can't get past the almost but not quite normal poos. My observation has been that with these dogs it is almost like the almost but not quite normal poos are due to some itty bitty ingredient that is not agreeing or too much or too little of something. Usually once you find the absolute right food, then all of a sudden perfect poos appear.... but sometimes this can take a year or multiple years to figure out... and as i am sure you have guessed, some never figure it out.

SO... if the poos are almost normal... celebrate, and in the meantime keep scrutinizing everything you try, write it all done and over time, what you will see are trends of repeated items /individual ingredients included in stuff that appears to make the stools better or worse. This unfortunately take a LOT of time and patience.

REgarding the probiotic.... good that you started with less than half... just work your way up to the full recommended dose over the course of the 1st week or 1st two weeks :).... and most of the time you will not see any positive results from this until at least a few weeks or more.... this two take time to slowly improve the gut flora....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Nov 2021, 12:28

just looked at this morning's poo pic... that is actually good and acceptable as normal :)

I know we focus on a chocolate brown poo color..... but you also have to work into the equation that the type of food/protein you feed also has a bearing into the color of the poo. depending on the brand and how they combine the ingredients.... many fowl /white fish tends to produce lighter stools vs. beef, fatty fish, venison which tends to product darker colored stools....................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Location: Upstate NY
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My name: Elizabeth

Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 30 Nov 2021, 14:47

Hope you had a happy Thanksgiving! Whiskey is coming up to his 45 days on antibiotics next week and this weekend will be his last proviable-forte. This poop has been pretty good with just one bad day last week. It was interesting as the morning poop was very yellow yet later that afternoon the poop looked much better. See 11/26 photos. Not sure what happened but I had been having a really hard time getting him to eat his food with the antibiotic on it. I finally got some empty pill packs and put the tylan in them and made a small ball of canned lamb tripe food around the pill. I started feeding all of his pills (B12, Denamarin, Proviable) that way as he just wouldn't eat his food with all of the powdered stuff on it. I read that the tylan is bitter and they said it was ok to put in a pill form. He is now eating much better.
I just made an appointment with my vet for blood work next Friday 12/10. Hopefully his ALT levels will be down. I still have my scheduled appointment with Cornell Vet hospital for 12/15 that I made 3 months ago. Do you think that if his ALT numbers are normal that I need to take him to Cornell? I will definitely keep the appointment if his levels are not down as something else might be wrong. I haven't got the result from the allergy test which I am hoping it might shed some light on if I am giving some food that is not good for him. How accurate do you find those tests?
So what do you think of his progress?. I am thrilled that his poop is looking so much better but there is still some mucus on it and the other day has some strange yellow stuff but I am thinking that maybe his system is cleaning out? I will say that he stole a little raw venison scraps from us as we were processing a deer for our meat. It was fresh and clean but I have not been feeding him any venison while I have been limiting his diet.
Thanks again for you help and assistance in bringing Whiskey to perfect health!
Take good care and have a beautiful day!
Elizabeth
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whiskey 11-30-21 afternoon poop
whiskey 11-30-21 afternoon poop
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whiskey 11-28-21 morning poop
whiskey 11-28-21 morning poop
IMG_20211128_102018277_HDR.jpg (507.83 KiB) Viewed 392 times
whiskey 11-26-21 afternoon poop
whiskey 11-26-21 afternoon poop
IMG_20211126_141045050_HDR.jpg (319.28 KiB) Viewed 392 times
Whiskey 11-26-21 morning poop
Whiskey 11-26-21 morning poop
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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Nov 2021, 20:21

sometimes i tell people that when trying to get EPI under control, it is kind of like 2 steps forward and 1 step backward.

His poo has definitely improved... and that 1 off poo.... i don;'t really have an answer for you, but it's not something i would give a 2nd thought to (at this time) because what you want to see overall (improvement!) although i often wonder too if what is going on is something like what you said.... a cleaning out :)

Yep.. Tylan can be very nasty tasting to some dogs.... i used to pour it in empty gel caps and then I wrapped the gel cap with cream cheese... that was the ONLY way i could get my dogs to take

If the ALT 's come down, i would strongly suspect that the issue was due to SID afterall .....in which case there would be no need to keep the Dec 15 appt. If they don't come down, please do confer with your vet... they may have some other ideas as to why this is happening,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I think Johnny has made a fabulous recovery... you have done a great job managing his EPI.... Kudo's to you!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Location: Upstate NY
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My name: Elizabeth

Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 01 Dec 2021, 22:02

Thank you so very much for your advice and support. I know you said I should slowly transition Whiskey off the tylan after the 45 days. How much should I reduce the amount and for how long? Should I continue the b`12, slippery elm bark and denamarin also and if so for how long? I am currently giving him 1/4 tsp tylan 2x day; 1/8 tsp Slippery elm 2X day; 1 - denamarin/day and 1 - B12/day.
I did get the Nutrascan results back. No food allergies but his CellBIO test came back high = 3.28 Normal 0.5 - 1.75 ng/m. I was wondering if the results were high due to his SID issue? Any thoughts?
I use to give him various supplements but stopped when his poop got bad just in case they were not helping his situation. Please offer your opinion on whether I should reintroduce any of them and if so when. Dasuquin with MSM chews, Zesty Paws Turmeric Curcumin bites, Nutra thrive, Animal Essentials Ocean Kelp (pinch), The missing link Superfood supplement, Zesty Paws Wild Alaskan Salmon oil. I didn't give all of the supplements every day but would give some of them on one day and the other half of them on the next day. Would any of these hurt him and are there any other supplements I should give him?
Thanks again!

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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Dec 2021, 22:56

Hi Elizabeth,
Once you reach the 45th day of giving Tylan, we found that it often helps avoid a relapse (although there is no guarantee) if you slowly withdraw from the Tylan vs. just stopping cold turkey.
The Tylan withdrawal we suggest is the following:
After the 45th day....
1. give 1/2 dose of the Tylan with breakfast and dinner for a week (in whiskey's case, this would be 1/8 tsp breakfast & dinner)
2. the following week give the 1/2 dose (1/8 of a tsp) of Tylan only once a day (breakfast)
3. the week after the above give the 1/2 dose (1/8 of a tsp) every other day for another week.
4. when the above is completed stop giving Tylan... BUT watch the stools closely to see if they remain good or start getting sloppy again.

Regarding "1/8 tsp Slippery elm 2X day; 1 - denamarin/day and 1 - B12/day." stay the course of these.

Regarding "Dasuquin with MSM chews, Zesty Paws Turmeric Curcumin bites, Nutra thrive, Animal Essentials Ocean Kelp (pinch), The missing link Superfood supplement, Zesty Paws Wild Alaskan Salmon oil. These are all great supplements and many of us use them also.... BUT.....first, i would wait until you finish the Tylan withdrawal plan noted above.... then i would give things a few weeks to make sure you are not seeing a flare up from stopping the TYlan.... Once all is clear... then if you would like to try it....add these supplements one at a time and give each addition about a week or so with you watching & recording whether or not each addition helps or hinders the stool quality (or instigates burping, regurg/acid reflux, gas, etc, etc).

I know this is all so slow and a pain in the butt, but giving things time and when adding things to the regimen, trying things just one at a time... but this is the best way to figure out what is benefiting WHiskey or not.................you'd be amazed at how often it is one itty bitty ingredient in something that sets this dogs off....

Hope this helps!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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