Hello - New Member

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Danielle Crownover
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Concho
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Monday

Hello - New Member

Post by Danielle Crownover » 21 Jul 2019, 08:31

Hello!

I am a new member. We just had our dog tested and are still awaiting the EPI results. For the past month or so, I have been watching my sweet girl, Monday, waste away... No matter how much we feed her she is starving and getting skinnier by the moment. It is terrifying!

I came across EPI when I was researching what clostridium perfringens (so) was and found it was an overgrowth of bacteria.. her fecal had come back positive for that... I came across an article on EPI and was like "whoever wrote this has been watching my dog!". I immediately called my vet and insisted I wanted Monday tested for EPI right away... The vet said EPI was on her list to rule out, so we got Monday in the next day (which was Friday).

I am 99% sure that is what we have going on... So as I am awaiting results, I am trying to figure out how we will start feeding her and how to get her back to normal. I realize dogs are all different, so what did you all do when you first got the diagnosis to figure out the best food for your pup?

Also, I am curious about who does raw pancreas... We farm, so I have access... I have read about pork and beef pancreas, is there anyone who knows about sheep and goat pancreas?
Dog Name: Monday
Date of Birth: May 18, 2018
Diagnosed EPI: July 22, 2019
Treatment began July 26, 2019 PM meal
Weight at time of diagnosis 32 lbs
Weight at time of treatment 31 lbs
Ideal Weight 40 - 45 lbs
Current Weight 31.8 lbs

Current Treatment:
Food - 4Health Chicken & Rice - dry food, 1.5 cups three times daily 6am, Noon, 6pm
PanaKare Plus Enzymes 1.5 tsp per meal, Incubated with warm water on food 30 minutes
Vit B12 injections 2x weekly (Monday and Thursday)

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 114
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Tuckaboo. » 21 Jul 2019, 09:18

Hi, there...Pam, here, and I joined this past week. I haven't yet had the test done, but my vet has quoted me $440.00. Do you mind if I ask, was yours that expensive? Sorry I'm so tacky, asking about this to everyone, but that's a lot of money to me.
Tucker is a shepherd mix, and has not had a blood test for EPI. In May 2019 we started on sulfasalazine to eliminate IBS as diagnosis. Symptoms returned at end of course, so started on Tylan alone...no luck, so added enzymes, and progress was shown. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4t/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2/day, and Tylan 1/2 t/day. No more coprophagia, he has gained 8 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family...no more grumpies with his much smaller brother & sisters, who do not have EPI.

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 718
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by jilbert57 » 21 Jul 2019, 10:11

Hi Danielle and welcome to the forum. There is a lot of excellent information on this site. You might cruise through it while waiting for results. There is a tab for dog food suggestions too.

There are 4 cornerstones for EPI if your pup is diagnosed:

Enzymes. There are folks who use raw pancreas.
Diet: usually a grainfree food 4% fiber or under.
Antibiotic if Small Intestinal Disease is present
B12. Most dogs will have low B12. Needs to be high.

Ask any questions.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

Barb
Staff
Posts: 366
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Barb » 21 Jul 2019, 10:39

Hello, Danielle, and a warm welcome to you and Monday! I love her name.

Yes, you are almost through the most difficult stage--not knowing what is wrong with your beloved pup. Once you get a diagnosis, you will feel much better. Having the cTLI test done is the gold standard for diagnosing EPI. You will definitely know one way or another and can proceed from there. Hopefully, they are doing B12 levels and Folate at the same time. Most dogs who have EPI have low B12 at diagnosis.

Jill gave you the basic cornerstones for treating EPI if Monday has it--Enzymes, Food, B12, and Antibiotics if necessary. Many of us use Enzyme Diane's enzymes. She is a member here and provides an excellent product at very reasonable prices. People who are more familiar with using raw pancreas can address that process here. I know it isn't always easy to get the pancreatic dosage right when using raw pancreas, but there are people here who can help you if you choose that route.

The food, as Jill mentioned can be referenced here on our site....many good foods that are grain free and low fiber can be used. This is often very specific to each dog. Some dogs respond well to just about any food. Others are picky (like mine) and need more trial and error.

One thing I would highly recommend is keeping a daily journal/log of everything you give Monday and the amounts (food, enzymes, B12, etc.) and the resulting poos. This will help you to see what is working and what isn't, and it helps if you have to make changes. You can download a blank log form from our tab, or just use a notebook. This saved our sanity at the beginning and still does at times.

Please ask any questions you have and let us know the results of the test when you receive them.

Hang in there.....you are doing well! We have all been where you are and know how stressful it can be.

Barb

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 740
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Jean » 22 Jul 2019, 05:03

Hi there from the UK and welcome to you and Monday, what a great name

rewind back to 2010 I was in the same boat as you are now

my girl was a mess, she lost pounds, and was 39 pounds at one point, I, like you insisted on the test, told she was too young, and hey ho, positive for EPI

this forum was my life line as was my vets

so let us know what the results are and then we can give you our experiences

a detailed journal is essential

chin up

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Danielle Crownover
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Concho
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Monday

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Danielle Crownover » 22 Jul 2019, 13:34

Diagnosis is in... It is EPI. My vet is not super up to date on this and I live rural so I will be leaning on you all a lot!

They want to put her on a prescription diet (fine for now) which is low fat and they don't want her on grain free due to all the recent issues in the news. I appreciate my vet will be researching to get more up to speed

The test was expensive... I want to say it was $380. This, after the $600 we had spent earlier in the week for x-rays, blood work, fecals, etc Her b level was fine, but she had just had a shot a few days before. We give Vit B to our goats so the vet will get us an injectable that we can administer as directed.... Which right now is 1 to 2x per week.

I will definitely be using Diane's enzymes... The vet wants 118 for a 12 oz bottle which is not in stock... So... Yeah. That and fresh pancreas if I can get it from processing our pigs or from our processor.

Thanks for being here!!!
Dog Name: Monday
Date of Birth: May 18, 2018
Diagnosed EPI: July 22, 2019
Treatment began July 26, 2019 PM meal
Weight at time of diagnosis 32 lbs
Weight at time of treatment 31 lbs
Ideal Weight 40 - 45 lbs
Current Weight 31.8 lbs

Current Treatment:
Food - 4Health Chicken & Rice - dry food, 1.5 cups three times daily 6am, Noon, 6pm
PanaKare Plus Enzymes 1.5 tsp per meal, Incubated with warm water on food 30 minutes
Vit B12 injections 2x weekly (Monday and Thursday)

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 740
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Jean » 22 Jul 2019, 13:55

Low fat diet is old research, and so is presription food

You need these dogs to gain weight, therefore you need to give 150% of the food guide for the weight your dog SHOULD be

What was the b vit result .. fine is not always fine with an EPI dog

This news on Grain free is a pain, Iwill ask Olesia to chime in

In the mean time let us know what happens and keep a journal

Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Danielle Crownover
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Concho
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Monday

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Danielle Crownover » 22 Jul 2019, 14:11

Yeah I am in agreement with the research, low fat is old research and my vet is surely not up to speed... I am not sure she has ever seen an EPI dog before... so this will be a learning experience for her.. and I feel like she is going to be all in with the learning, I really appreciate that about her :)

I didn't get Monday's B-level, she just said "fine" for now, BUT we are to give her shots once or twice a week for the next month.

QUESTION: Lots of good food options listed on the pages... as I am transitioning Monday off of the bland diet she has been on for the past week, will I do the gradual transition to a food? Like just start adding a little of the new food at a time until the transition is complete and then if we find we need to try a different food, do we go through that process repeatedly until we figure out what will work for her?

On another note, my other dog (Daisey) is over weight. She has been on a hunger strike for the past week because Monday is getting the bland diet and Daisey is jealous. This is going to be such an interesting journey - both dogs are about to have a real life change... Daisey will have to learn to cope - maybe she will lose a couple pounds in the process. Even on her strike, for every ounce Monday loses, Daisey gains two. Monday is like that skinny friend who can eat all the pizza and never gain an ounce while Daisey just thinks about pizza and goes up a size.

How soon, after we get Monday on the enzymes, should we expect to see results? (poo, weight gain, etc.) What are things I should be watching out for?
Dog Name: Monday
Date of Birth: May 18, 2018
Diagnosed EPI: July 22, 2019
Treatment began July 26, 2019 PM meal
Weight at time of diagnosis 32 lbs
Weight at time of treatment 31 lbs
Ideal Weight 40 - 45 lbs
Current Weight 31.8 lbs

Current Treatment:
Food - 4Health Chicken & Rice - dry food, 1.5 cups three times daily 6am, Noon, 6pm
PanaKare Plus Enzymes 1.5 tsp per meal, Incubated with warm water on food 30 minutes
Vit B12 injections 2x weekly (Monday and Thursday)

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 740
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Jean » 23 Jul 2019, 04:04

do I sympathise with Daisey !

ok grain free foods

this is from our website

https://epi4dogs.com/why-grainfree-foods/

https://epi4dogs.com/taurine-grainfree-diets/

is the b12 the generic one i.e. should be dark pink in colour

ask for all of the results taken, they will give us a benchmark to work with on advice

please feel free to share anything on the website with your vet, it is mainly researched along with the top vets in the business, and the rest from members feedback

as to food

My girl was given a prescription diet which went straight through her, so that stopped, and we went grain free, cold turkey, the enzymes we had at the time were expensive, but she was insured , but she was taking 5 times the recommended dose, per meal, 5 times a day

we only turned a corner when we added antibiotic for Small bowel issues which are recognised by flatulence and tummy rumbles

SIBO/SID

SMALL INTESTINAL BACTERIAL OVERGROWTH

SMALL INTESTINAL DYSBIOSIS

https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-in-brief/

We used Tylan as many others do

your clostridium perfringens said as much when tested

which enzymes are you using ?

the rule of thumb is 1 level teaspoon to 1 cup of kibble, and allow the enzyme to "sit" , incubate, for around 30 minutes, having added some warm water

https://epi4dogs.com/enzymes-in-brief/

in your case add 50% of the food recommendation of the weight the dog SHOULD be and over a few meals if you can

and keep a journal on everything you do

the weight will slowly start to come back, its certainly not overnight, ther body has been undernourished for a while and will need to get in gear again

dont forget, we have all been there

please ask away

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 114
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Hello - New Member

Post by Tuckaboo. » 23 Jul 2019, 17:36

Hi Danielle. Thanks for sharing the price with me. I just wanted to say that I ordered from Diane recently, and the enzymes came very quickly. My vet also wanted to limit fat & even to cut protein with some rice, but I have learned here that it is not customary to do so. Also, I've learned there is a lot of trial & error, so who knows? Once school starts & I'm getting paid again!!! I will get the test for my darling Tucker.
Tucker is a shepherd mix, and has not had a blood test for EPI. In May 2019 we started on sulfasalazine to eliminate IBS as diagnosis. Symptoms returned at end of course, so started on Tylan alone...no luck, so added enzymes, and progress was shown. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4t/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2/day, and Tylan 1/2 t/day. No more coprophagia, he has gained 8 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family...no more grumpies with his much smaller brother & sisters, who do not have EPI.

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