Liz's "stinky" Piper

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy
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Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Dec 2020, 22:56

... starting this tread for Liz and her dog Piper.....

Re: Stinky dogs?
Post by Elboss2 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:30 pm
Elboss2
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Piper
My name: Liz

Hi all- I am new to this group and so happy to have found it! My dog Piper got diagnosed with EPI about a year ago (she is 4yo) We can barely take the smell anymore. Has anyone found any type of fix to this? We just recently switched from Enzyme Diane to Panikare Plus, we give monthly B12 shots, I just ordered Probiotics and Prebiotics, I’m going go switch her food to Royal Canin Ultamino, and I will ask my vet about an antibiotic on Monday. Any suggestions or help would be great! Her stools are normally hard, with occasional soft stools and she has gained all of her weight back. Thanks so much!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Dec 2020, 22:58

response from Pam with Tucker

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 414
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Hi, Liz. I know the preferred antibiotic is tylosin tartrate, Tylan, because it doesn't wipe out the good bacteria while it's working on the bad stuff. Seems like vets like to prescribe metronidazole, but there is information on this site that strongly cautions against its use. The research is current.

You might want to go and start your own new topic, so the staff is sure to notice it. They may even suggest holding off on the antibiotics until you've tried out some other things first. I'll stop there, because I would just be repeating what I've read, with no experience to back it up. But I wanted to respond, since you are calling your vet on Monday.

Stinky dog smell, though---I find Tucker is a little worse when I don't let his food & enzymes marinate the full 20 minutes, but I only smell him when he's close. I do, however, have a maltese & a maltipoo, a little smaller than your little dogs, and I find that they have strong breath & a weird smell when they are very warm, almost a bacterial smell. I wonder if you are looking at a combination of reasons for your dog's issue.

Good luck, and I look forward to hearing how things work out for you. Take care---Pam & Tucker
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix, adopted on craigslist; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 3 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 1/day, and Tylan 1/5 teaspoon/day. Thriving on Sport Dog Food Elite/Herding Dog. No more coprophagia, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, if a bit of a bully with his four siblings from time to time. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Dec 2020, 22:59

response from Liz

Hi Pam-
Thank you so so much for your quick reply. This is such a great resource and I’m so glad I have people to talk to about this now. I will start a new topic, thanks for the suggestion. That’s interesting to hear about letting the enzymes sit. We usually only let it sit for about 10 minutes. I’m going to try 20 and see if that helps. Piper smells so bad that our carpets/rugs and house is beginning to smell.

Our vet had prescribed metronidazole in the beginning, so that’s good to know not to get that again. It definitely seems like we need a new combo to get this all figured out.

Thanks again! Have a good night!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Dec 2020, 23:02

response from Olesia

Post by Olesia711 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:44 pm

Hi Liz,
i am really glad that Pam mentioned incubating the food a bit longer..... especially since you shared with us that you are only letting the enzymes incubate for about 10 minutes... try doing the 20 minutes and see if that helps any. If it helps but not enough, the other things to try (as discussed, one at a time... and observe for a few days to see if it is helping or hindering things before trying the next things) are :
1. Incubating enzymes for 20 minutes,
2. next try Pre+Probiotics (which you are ordering... GOOD!!!!)
3. then try Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate soluble powder antibiotic)
4. or then try a different food..... what are you feeding now..... often food with a fiber content of 4% or even less than 4% make a difference and avoid foods with lots of peas or pea sources in it! However... if you are also dealing with a food sensitivity like Madelon suggested (good point Madelon!!) .... asking the vet to try Royal Canine "Ultamino" hydrolyzed food is another great step to try and see if that is part of the problem......

Please keep us posted.... i have set your posts up in this thread labeled "Liz's stinky Piper" so that you can have your own place to discuss Piper's issues.)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Madelon » 27 Dec 2020, 08:54

Hi Liz! Welcome to our EPI family. The first thing that pops out at me is giving monthly B12 shots - have you had the B12 retested? How are the poops? I believe the researchers and Olesia have said in the past that the "smell" is typically from the food rotting in the gut so I'm wondering if your dog's B12 dosage needs to be increased or the frequency with which you give it.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Elboss2
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Piper
My name: Liz

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Elboss2 » 27 Dec 2020, 12:19

Hi Madelon- We have not had her levels retested, so maybe we should do that. I will check with the vet this week. We do give her 1 shot a month but I’m not sure what’s the exact amount is since it is already in the syringe when we pick it up.

What does everyone recommend for pre+ probiotics?

Oh and her poops are usually hard and normal, she does have an occasional soft stool but that could also attribute to the times our toddler drops something on the floor and she eats it. We try to not let that happen.

Thanks everyone!
Liz Bosslet

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Olesia711 » 27 Dec 2020, 12:35

currently we are recommending "Proviable" for a pre+probiotic....
another product i like is: Vetri Science Mega Probiotic, Digestive Relief with Probiotics and Prebiotics for Dogs and Cats

Regarding the B12..... there is a chart here on how much B12 is given according to weight https://epi4dogs.com/b12-protocol/

Her B12 may be just fine with monthly B12 shots ..... or.... it may not be frequent enough.
FYI.... Many of us use WOnderlabs "et Factor B12 capsules..... for ease of use and sometimes for dogs that don't hold their B12 well enough with the shots.
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1346
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 27 Dec 2020, 18:34

Liz, what kind of dog is Piper? I believe I conflated your story and the person whose thread we were first talking under, and I thought Piper was a Westie. I just like to have a mental picture when I'm thinking about a dog. Thanks---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Madelon » 01 Jan 2021, 10:48

Hi Liz. Just wanted to mention if you do pro/prebiotics we usually recommend starting with 1/2 the dose to make sure your dog can tolerate it - use 1/2 the dose for a 3-5 days watching the poop carefully. If the poop is good then you can try increasing to the full dose - again watch the poops :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Elboss2
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Piper
My name: Liz

Re: Liz's "stinky" Piper

Post by Elboss2 » 31 May 2021, 16:34

Hi all! Has anyone ever tried Amoxicillin for the smell? We are still struggling to get Piper to smell better, but about a month ago she had a UTI and was on Amoxicillin for 2 weeks and she didn’t smell. We have tried Tylan (not a full 35 days worth) but it really hasn’t seemed to work, maybe it would by the end of the dosage though. Just thought I’d ask because I did see something about using Amoxicillin if Tylan doesn’t work for your dog. This smell is driving me crazy (8 months pregnant doesn’t help :) but I need to get rid of it!!! Thanks in advance!
Liz Bosslet

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