New here - meet Johnny!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Johnnycake
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Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Johnny
My name: MacKenzie

New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Johnnycake » 30 Dec 2020, 09:23

Hello! First just let me say what a relief it has been to find this forum! My vet and the shelter I adopted Johnny from were able to give me the basics of his condition and how to manage it, but nothing anywhere near as detailed as what I've been able to find here. Thank you!!!

Johnny was diagnosed in October at the shelter, and he's gained about thirteen pounds since then, but still a long way to go to get to his ideal weight. He's been home with me for about a month now and it's certainly been a learning process, but I think we're taking another step forward every day.

My biggest questions right now are:

1.) Right now I am feeding Johnny Solid Gold Sensitive Stomach dry food 1-2x a day, as well as a wet foods 1-2x a day. Would you recommend anything different? My vet suggested I change the food based on the fat content, but it is at least grain free (fiber 4%). I've been incubating the enzymes at each meal.
2.) My vet doesn't carry enzymes so I had to order them online - I ordered a 12oz bottle of Pancreplus. I'll be switching to EnzymeDiane after I get through what I already ordered. Until the prescription enzymes get here, I've been using a plant enzyme powder which I know is not enough. Is there something else that would be better for me to use in the meantime? I will make sure to order well in advance in the future!
3.) I know I need to be supplementing B12 (Johnny tested low in the shelter and I took him in for his last injection a couple of weeks ago) but my vet didn't mention anything about it when I took him in to get his prescriptions filled. When I take him back in, what specifically should I ask for? Just a B12 test and recommended dosage?

Thank you guys so much! I know these are probably basic questions so I apologize for the trouble... just trying to wrap my head around everything and give this sweet dog the life he deserves! He's an amazing soul and I already love him so much.

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Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1335
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 30 Dec 2020, 14:14

Hi, Mackenzie, from Pam & Tucker in FL. How good you are, to adopt a dog, knowing he has this condition. You'll get answers to your questions from somebody on staff, but I just wanted to say welcome! It sounds like you've got a good jump on this thing. You can read the bottom of my response, to see what has worked for my dog. I buy the B12 from Amazon. How are Johnnycake's poops? Give as much information as you can, keep a diary, ask every single question you can think of, and check back here for answers to your questions & help with any problems that may arise. Happy New Year!
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2020, 14:14

A huge welcome from me in the UK

You ask ANYTHING

The four thigs you need to consider are

Food

preferably 4% fibre or less, most of our dogs do not tolerate chicken , and chicken or poultry fat, the fat content is not an issue unless the animal has another condition

I had a quick look at the food you mention and they have chicken fat, however, he has put 13 pounds of weight on

are his poo's formed

if he has lost a fair bit of weight, we recommend you feed 50% over and above what the bag of food says for the weight he SHOULD be over a few meals a day , all enzymed

this is only short term

what weight is he and what weight do you think he should be

B12

this is essential to digestion

https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi

the injections should be then generic type , dark pink in colour

you can supplement this with

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

it would be useful for you to know what his levels are, and it is with blood draw after 8-12 hours food fasted, and specific , ask for Folate to be tested too

Antibiotics

we recommend , if necessary, Tylan which is weight dosed

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

does he have any tummy rumbles ?

Enzymes

Most people use Enzyme Diane and there is great success , and she is very approachable having had her own EPI dog

I think maybe thats enough for you for now

keep a detailed log/ diary on anything and everyting you do or change, and change one thing at a time so you know what works

he is so gorgeous and that jumper is fab

Good luck


Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Madelon » 31 Dec 2020, 17:45

Hi Mackenzie and Johnny - welcome to our EPI family! OMG Johnny is simply too cute and thank you for rescuing that sweet boy!

Glad you'll be ordering the enzymes from Diane in the future - you're wallet will thank you :) As for B12, if you haven't been supplementing then I would have the vet test it to see where you're at. EPI dogs need B12 supplementing for life and most of us use WonderLabs B12 Pet Factor https://www.wonderlabs.com/newshowitems ... factor+b12 - use the code EPI4DOGS15 at check out and you'll get 15% off of your order.

As for the food, while the fiber is okay at 4% there are a lot of pea ingredients in the food which don't agree with most EPI dogs. However, if the poop is good on that food then I would stick with it. If the poop is not optimal then I would definitely consider switching to one that doesn't have so many peas in the ingredients. Here is a link to our dog food option page with a list of foods that have worked well for other EPI owners over the years https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and the resulting poop - it will help you figure out what works and what doesn't. And never apologize for asking questions, it is the reason this organization was created :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Barb » 31 Dec 2020, 18:13

Hi MacKenzie and Johnny,

You have been given excellent advice, but I just want to welcome you and thank you for opening your home and heart to Johnny. He is absolutely adorable. You are askng all the right questions. We all remember what it feels like to be at the beginning of this process. You are doing great Johnny is lucky to have found you.

Barb

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3843
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Jan 2021, 13:43

i too wanted to welcome you and Johnny. He is a REAL cutie and is doing so well already... Kudos to you!

It appears that your questions (for now) have been answered.... looking forward to hearing Johnny updates!

And PLEASE feel free to ask us anything we will do our best to answer/help you and Johnny on your EPI journey.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Johnnycake
Member
Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Johnny
My name: MacKenzie

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Johnnycake » 04 Jan 2021, 09:34

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! I really appreciate it!!!

His poops are definitely better on the EnzymeDiane (I went ahead and ordered it since my other order got cancelled), he's getting 2 tsps per cup of food right now. I would say they're about a 3.5 on the poop chart, still squishy but they do have shape and they're much easier to pick up. So not perfect, but better than when he was having pure liquid poops. I can definitely try out a different food and see if that helps! He's only really had one really good poop since I adopted him so a change in diet might be a good idea.

I did have a couple other questions I thought of:

1.) Generally speaking, are most EPI dogs lower energy animals or are they about what you would expect for their breed/age? Johnny is just about the calmest, most laidback young dog I've ever met, and he's definitely perked up a lot since treatment started. He does tire out pretty easily though and I would say he has low-moderate exercise needs - he's definitely a mutt (heeler/Great Pyrenees if I had to guess, but we'll see when his DNA test comes back!) so I wasn't sure if it's just how he is, or if it's something I should be keeping an eye on in regards to the EPI.

2.) Second, ever since starting the EnzymeDiane he's been a lot more selective about his food - he'll only eat wet food if he's really hungry, and he won't eat treated kibble at all unless it's mixed in with a lot of wet food. I have a feeling maybe I'm either not mixing it in right, or just not disguising the taste well enough, if that's what he doesn't like. I'll read through some more stuff here and see what I find but let me know if you guys have any ideas!

Thank you all again so much, I really appreciate it! Johnny got so excited at the park yesterday and got major zoomies while playing with me, that's by the far the most energy I've seen him have and it made me really happy to witness.

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Johnnycake
Member
Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Johnny
My name: MacKenzie

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Johnnycake » 04 Jan 2021, 09:37

I forgot to add (sorry) he is currently 43 pounds, I've been told he should likely reach around 60 or 70. He's still really skinny, you can see his ribs and all his bones protruding, but he looked like an absolute skeleton when he was brought into the shelter so it's at least an improvement!

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2081
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by jilbert57 » 04 Jan 2021, 09:52

Good morning! Johnny is so cute.
You might try using the recommended enzyme dose of 1 level teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble. Too much enzyme as well as too little can have an effect on the poops. Have you tried letting the food incubate a little longer? Try 20 minutes then stir well. Maybe sprinkle a little stinky parmesan on top.

Your pup should be full of energy once things get all in place but he is still underweight . Maybe try adding a meal before bed? We recommend feeding 150% of the recommended amount for his weight on the back of the dog food sack.

Is his B12 up around 600 or higher? I would order the B12 caps mentioned by Jean in the below link and supplement.

The food you are feeding, is it the salmon? If so it contains chickpeas. Peas, lentils and pea fiber for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th ingredients which might not be faring so well on the tummy.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New here - meet Johnny!

Post by Madelon » 04 Jan 2021, 20:28

Hi again! If you are using 2tsp enzymes per 1 cup of food that is way too much and as Jill said that will can cause the poop to be bad as well as using too little enzyme. So I would start with our recommended dose of 1tsp per cup of kibble. If you are feeding wet food then start with 3/4tsp per cup. With the food you are on there are A LOT of peas/legumes so you might need a tad more than 1tsp per cup but start with that first.

As far as energy, a lot of EPI dogs are lacking in energy when first diagnosed because the B12 levels are so low and depending on the amount of weight loss and muscle loss. Have you started supplementing the B12 yet?

Unfortunately until you get the right balance of enzymes, B12, food and treating SID if needed, you won't see optimal results.

So, I would first adjust the enzymes and start supplementing the B12 - if after a week the poops still are not good then I would recommend switching the food to a lower fiber food with less pea and legume ingredients and possibly try adding slippery elm or ask your vet for Tylan antibiotics.

Keep us posted.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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