GSD not gaining weight after following protocol, Help**

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Ruby
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Posts: 99
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: GSD not gaining weight after following protocol, Help**

Post by Ruby » 08 Jan 2021, 21:24

Hi,
I agree with Olesia. My dog, years ago couldn't get things right. So I bought Creon on line from Chemist Warehouse. 10,000 units. I gave my Ruby (she was a collie)
two 10,000 units of Creon capsules. Placed them in my hand a little water on them and she would take them. Gave her 2 - 2 3/4 cups of food Also, B12 with intrinsic factor from Wonderlab ... 1 capsule at each of her meals . I just placed in with her food and she ate it. It kept her B12 level fine no ups and downs. EVERYDAY I DID THIS FOR A LITTLE OVER 10 years. Also, when she was first having problems .... I bought Primal Defense Probiotics and gave her 1/16 of a teaspoon in her food once a day for a while that helped with the balance of the good and bad bacteria since she had been on antibiotics a number of times at first. It worked. You may want to try that. I don't think that changing your dogs food should be changed since it is in the guidlines for EPI dogs and that your dog was doing alright before. Your dog is beautiful ...don't give up it will all be worth it.

Don't try and change too many things at one time do one at a time for about a week or so each ....sit back and watch the changes. It may take awhile but it can work out. Like they told me when I first came on here. "You are a poopologist" lol.

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1983
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: GSD not gaining weight after following protocol, Help**

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Jan 2021, 23:09

Hi again Christin,

Yes, CREON is perfectly safe for dogs... as a matter of fact if you lived in Australia or South America or some European countries... the only enzyme that you would have access to to treat your EPI dog is CREON.

Technically though, powdered enzymes are the best format and type of enzymes to give a dog with EPI, but... when situations arise when you either don't have access to the powdered enzymes, or for whatever reason you need to try a different format of enzymes, then many times CREON is the answer.

For example, although it doesn't happen very often, if a dog has a pork allergy and cannot take the powdered enzymes or else they have an adverse reaction... something about the way CREON is made, not sure if it is because the individual pellets are enteric coated or what... or if it is because the enzyme potency is so much lower because of the way CREON is put together... for whatever reason, dogs with pork allergies appear to be able to take CREON better than the powdered enzymes.......

The above scenario is the reason why i thought that maybe trying CREON might work better for Jade

So... the issue with giving CREON (i already explained that CREON is designed to dissolve at a human digestive pH level of approximately 4... whereas a dog's pH level is around 1..... so to work around this by trying different methods:
(1) we try opening up the CREON capsule and sprinkling the little enteric coated pellets on top of the food (do not mix and do not incubate) but then serve the food immediately. If the poos go mushy after trying this... then the next technique we try is
(2) give the CREON capsule whole but about 5 minutes prior to serving the food.
If either of the two work just not well enough, another thing we try is to give 1+1/2 capsule to see if a little more is what is needed. Most dogs on CREON seem to either need 1 or 2 capsules per meal.

The problem with CREON is that it is EXPENSIVE! SO... what we suggest here in the USA is to order from Canada... (or like Marilyn, she ordered from ChemistWarehouse) both which is MUCH cheaper than ordering CREON in the States. ....

I really don't know if this would work for Jade, but based on what you wrote it about Jade's situation, it sounded to me like this might be worth trying.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

cjjames
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Jade
My name: Christin

Re: GSD not gaining weight after following protocol, Help**

Post by cjjames » 10 Jan 2021, 14:50

Ruby wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 21:24 Hi,
I agree with Olesia. My dog, years ago couldn't get things right. So I bought Creon on line from Chemist Warehouse. 10,000 units. I gave my Ruby (she was a collie)
two 10,000 units of Creon capsules. Placed them in my hand a little water on them and she would take them. Gave her 2 - 2 3/4 cups of food Also, B12 with intrinsic factor from Wonderlab ... 1 capsule at each of her meals . I just placed in with her food and she ate it. It kept her B12 level fine no ups and downs. EVERYDAY I DID THIS FOR A LITTLE OVER 10 years. Also, when she was first having problems .... I bought Primal Defense Probiotics and gave her 1/16 of a teaspoon in her food once a day for a while that helped with the balance of the good and bad bacteria since she had been on antibiotics a number of times at first. It worked. You may want to try that. I don't think that changing your dogs food should be changed since it is in the guidlines for EPI dogs and that your dog was doing alright before. Your dog is beautiful ...don't give up it will all be worth it.

Don't try and change too many things at one time do one at a time for about a week or so each ....sit back and watch the changes. It may take awhile but it can work out. Like they told me when I first came on here. "You are a poopologist" lol.
Gotcha this was definitely helpful Ruby, I'll try out the Creon pills and see the reaction. And definitely, one step at a time. Thank you!

cjjames
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Jade
My name: Christin

Re: GSD not gaining weight after following protocol, Help**

Post by cjjames » 10 Jan 2021, 14:55

Olesia711 wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 23:09 Hi again Christin,

Yes, CREON is perfectly safe for dogs... as a matter of fact if you lived in Australia or South America or some European countries... the only enzyme that you would have access to to treat your EPI dog is CREON.

Technically though, powdered enzymes are the best format and type of enzymes to give a dog with EPI, but... when situations arise when you either don't have access to the powdered enzymes, or for whatever reason you need to try a different format of enzymes, then many times CREON is the answer.

For example, although it doesn't happen very often, if a dog has a pork allergy and cannot take the powdered enzymes or else they have an adverse reaction... something about the way CREON is made, not sure if it is because the individual pellets are enteric coated or what... or if it is because the enzyme potency is so much lower because of the way CREON is put together... for whatever reason, dogs with pork allergies appear to be able to take CREON better than the powdered enzymes.......

The above scenario is the reason why i thought that maybe trying CREON might work better for Jade

So... the issue with giving CREON (i already explained that CREON is designed to dissolve at a human digestive pH level of approximately 4... whereas a dog's pH level is around 1..... so to work around this by trying different methods:
(1) we try opening up the CREON capsule and sprinkling the little enteric coated pellets on top of the food (do not mix and do not incubate) but then serve the food immediately. If the poos go mushy after trying this... then the next technique we try is
(2) give the CREON capsule whole but about 5 minutes prior to serving the food.
If either of the two work just not well enough, another thing we try is to give 1+1/2 capsule to see if a little more is what is needed. Most dogs on CREON seem to either need 1 or 2 capsules per meal.

The problem with CREON is that it is EXPENSIVE! SO... what we suggest here in the USA is to order from Canada... (or like Marilyn, she ordered from ChemistWarehouse) both which is MUCH cheaper than ordering CREON in the States. ....

I really don't know if this would work for Jade, but based on what you wrote it about Jade's situation, it sounded to me like this might be worth trying.
Alright I see, I'm open to trying this if it helps my girl. And thanks for letting me know about the ordering, it'll help out if these work out! (Going to send you an email about those samples btw :).)

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