New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Mari
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Country: Norway
Pet name: Laurië
My name: Mari

New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Mari » 12 Jan 2021, 09:10

Hello, new member here, thanks for including me in this amazing forum. I have a 14-year-old cocker spaniel who was recently diagnosed with EPI. She had some liver and bile duct inflammation as well, but the meds she got seem to be keeping that in check.
The first three weeks on enzymes went pretty well. She got 3 daily meals of soaked kibble (hills j/d) with creon 25 000 on every meal. She was eating well, and her poops were nice and firm. Her weight was still dropping a little so the plan was to give more digestible food (hills i/d) and add a fourth meal.
Unfortunately, she stopped eating her food a few days ago, I have tried three types and she does not want any of them despite being hungry and eating the treats I try to hide in her food to make her eat.
New bloodwork and clinical exam show that she is otherwise healthy. She just refuses to eat the soggy, enzyme-enriched food. She has never been a picky eater so I am unsure about how to resolve this.
Is it normal for EPI dogs to go off their food, or could it be that the enzymes taste bad? I don't have many options for enzymes where I live. Maybe WeNzyme or provit enzyme powder are possible to get hold off, but it would be best if we could continue with creon.
Any help will be appreciated, I need to find a way to get her to eat soon! She is still a happy and energetic cocker, but was slender before she got sick so she does not have a lot of weight to loose.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Jean » 12 Jan 2021, 11:40

Good afternoon from the UK

you are using Creon for the enzyme

the food does not have to be mushed up with enteric coated capsule, you make the food, and maybe mix the contents of the capsule into something soft ,and mix it in, and serve

you do not put the capsule into food and let it "sit"

Creon tastes of nothing so long as it is prepared this way, my friend has EPI and I have asked her that very question

does she "have " to have Hills food ?

we always recommend low fibre and grain free food, how about b12 was that tested ?

my only other thought here is to keep a diary

let us know and we can help more


J
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Mari
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Pet name: Laurië
My name: Mari

Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Mari » 12 Jan 2021, 12:21

Thanks for your reply!

My vet told me I had to soften the food with water and mix in the enzymes 20 min before serving because dogs have short gastrointestinal tract and the capsules need more time than their GIT allows for. But I see from your answer and the info section that there are other options I can try, that gives me hope.

Does this mean I can try giving the capsule whole before a regular dry kibble meal, or should the food still be softened? I tried mixing the granules in and serving immediately and she still refused to eat. But I could hide the capsule in a treat, or hide the granules from the capsule in a treat if that's better?

We have discussed other food options, but we just wanted to get her going on the enzymes and it made sense at the time to use a feed both me and the vet were familiar with. But it's not a must to use hills, I am open to looking at grain-free varieties.

It worked well for almost a month. Poops were nice and firm, she was eating as much as I gave her. I don't understand why she refuses to eat it now. If it helps her appetite and digestion I'll swap, but I'm not sure she'd eat any mushy food with enzymes now.

We have not checked her b12, I was looking into supplements for the future, but right now we just wanted to stabilize her weight. She was perfectly healthy until mid-December last year so she has not had serious maldigestion for long thankfully.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 12 Jan 2021, 12:48

Hi, Mari. Welcome to you and Laurie from Florida. I just wanted to say that you should never feel shy about any questions you may have, or about needing additional clarification once an answer has been submitted. You'll get this, and your doggy will soon be alright. Take care---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Mari
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Pet name: Laurië
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Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Mari » 12 Jan 2021, 13:25

Thank you Tuckaboo! I have many questions so that's good to know.

I just tried giving the enzyme granules in something tasty, that went down. Unfortunately, she will still not eat any of her food, wet or dry.

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Jean
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Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Jean » 12 Jan 2021, 14:05

OK

this is what we have on our website

https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/

we used enteric coated enzymes which is what Creon is for two years with kara

we were told by the manufacturer NEVER EVER soak them in ANYTHING , We had to sprinkle the contents of the capsule over the food and mix in , and serve, these are microsheres and tiny , so ,if you do that then no incubation is necessary therefore no mush, we used to mix the spheres in a tablespoon of yougurt, and mix in the food, the kibble would then coat, no mush

if you leave it in the capsule please follow the Australian instruction

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guides-outside-usa/

scroll down

I would stick with the sprinkle, but the option is there, you do not need to soften the kibble with the sprinkle method, the whole point is that the microspheres stay whole until they hit the gut which is where they work, adding liquid would destroy their efficacy

so take heart

Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Jean » 12 Jan 2021, 14:06

also try a topper, parmesen cheese goes down well, or a bit of cat food, maybe at tablespoon
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Mari
Member
Posts: 14
Country: Norway
Pet name: Laurië
My name: Mari

Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Mari » 12 Jan 2021, 14:41

Thank you! I will definitely try again tomorrow with your method. It was easy enough to get her to eat the sprinkles with a spoon of yoghurt. Now I just need to get her to eat her food... She used to love it, she used to eat everything from dog food to carrots and everything in between to be fair, but I guess she feels differently now that she is unwell. I tried grated cheese, sour cream, liver pate, chunks of meat and crushed dog treats as toppers, but she just licked the good stuff and spat out the kibble. Maybe I need to try a new food entirely, maybe she associates these flavours with soggy enzymes now. One can hope.

Jane&Clyde
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Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Jane&Clyde » 12 Jan 2021, 15:58

Welcome! I'm so glad you figured out how to get your dog to take the Creon.

I'm new to EPI, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. There are people here who know much more than I do. But, I agree with changing the food to something else that has no more than 4% fiber, preferably grain-free. Prescription diets are well known for tasting terrible to the animals, and if she associates the food with the enzymes, that could make matters worse.

Also, I agree with the suggestion to get your dog's B12 tested. Over 80% of EPI dogs have low B12, and that could be affecting her weight gain. Low B12 can also cause lack of appetite.

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Olesia711
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Re: New member needs advice, dog will not eat

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Jan 2021, 20:02

Hi Mari and Laurie..... so sorry she is not wanting to eat her food....

Regarding the CREON.... never let it get wet and sit on food... the enzyme instructions your vet gave you are for powdered non-enteric enzymes..... not CREON which is enteric coated. SO glad members on the forum here gave you the proper CREON instructions.

And Yes... you can give the capsule whole tucked in something soft about 5 minutes prior to giving the meal. No need to "soften" the meal. Or just open capsule, sprinkle pellets on top of the food (make sure there is some kind of soft food on top so that the little pellets can stick to something, but do ot mix in the food and don't let the CREON pellets incubate in the food.

NEXT........... the non-eating...... a few things come immediately to my mind.
#1 please make sure that her vet checked her kidneys and that there is not some sort of kidney issue going on... since it sounds like she is refusing all food.

#2 It also could be that her tummy doesn't feel well because of SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) . MANY times, things are great in the beginning (about 3 weeks) and then it appears like nothing is working right anymore.... It usually is at this point that SID is acting up, coming to the forefront. Are you seeing ANY SID signs... they are " SID is not under good control if the dog displays any repeated signs such as yellowish or pale colored stools, loose stools, gelatinous stool coating, flatulence, lack of appetite, stomach noises, vomiting, acid reflux, low or low normal B12 then treat for existing secondary SID/SIBO. "


#3 Next.... sometimes it is low B12 that when not properly addressed, the dog will not feel like eating.... has Laurie's B12 been checked? It needs to be in the upper mid range.....

#4 And lastly... it could be the food..... but, quite honestly, when they were eating just fine and then stop all of a sudden, there usually is an underlying problem, not just that they don't like the food.............. so i would focus on the above 3.

Please let us know how we can help you figure this out.........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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